Monk ignored for 4.1

[Xaert]

How about you wait for actual patch notes before creating a hyperbolic complaint thread?

So, uh, how 'bout them patch notes, eh? We all know it, but there's nothing that they're going to do to change monk right now, it's too risky. The job is gradually losing its identity and the developers know, but what can they change right now that they would think to be an honest improvement? Can't do too much damage, it'll be better than Samurai, can't be too fast, speed is Ninja's gimmick as well, can't have Brotherhood perform fantastically, what reason would we have to bring Dragoon? Monk is in a fickle spot, but it's in TOO fickle a spot to where any changes can skyrocket past the other melee in terms of desirability. So where can the devs improve? Rework all the current (and still previous) button bloat? Double down on the Riddles? Focus on changing the Fists and promote stance dancing? Streamlining the fists and promoting more stack management? Where do the Chakras fit in other than Forbidden Chakra? Are the Chakras already outdated for only being used for one skill? There's so many things to consider that there's nothing to do but make "a hyperbolic complaint thread."

[Tigerlilley]

They actually said in the live letter (unofficially translated) that any jobs not mentioned here and now will not be changed. So the comment about waiting for patch notes was ridiculous in the first place.

[Blacktestament7]

speed is Ninja's gimmick as well

I gotta ask. Why has MNK's speed been looked at as a gimmick to be shared with NIN? I know they have the same speed percentage increase between GL3 and Huton but the entire point of NIN isn't completely centered around speed and while clearly a dps loss when Huton is lost it doesn't have anything on losing GL nor does it have to be built up as such either. Speed has always been MNK's identity. It's was at one point the focal point of the class. I understand NIN exists but why is MNK limited when NIN has an entirely different kit makeup. Dunno, this isn't the first time I've heard that and it always rubbed me the wrong way.

[Tracewood]

Part of me wishes they go rework on the other two fists of the MNK skills. Fists of Fire is fine, Riddle of Fire is workable if you stack the right amount of skill speed. Brotherhood is okay unless you are in a group of all casters (or slow phys dps)

Fists of Earth, to me is situational for solo and those moments where the Tank bites it, you're next on threat and you need time for you to take some hits until the tank gets back up. Riddle of Earth should apply a DEF up bonus to the entire raid, great for raid wide AoE. I'd love to put on a mini stoneskin for those oh crap moments, it would help out in raids.

Fists of Wind should emulate something that has really, REALLY, fast punching. Like 15% more skill speed (but no critical hits for balance). They should of put the "resets greased lightning" on Riddle of Wind instead of making it another tackle.

[Xaert]

I gotta ask. Why has MNK's speed been looked at as a gimmick to be shared with NIN?

I really wish I could tell you the answer to that, but all I can really say is the Devs desired it to be that in 2/3.0. It fit in quite nicely: Low dps with high utility, moderate dps with moderate utility, and high dps with low utility. Now it fits somewhere in between that, with the introduction of Samurai. I do wish that they kept the dot-scaling damage from Monk's Skill Speed that they tried out nearing the end of 3.0 though, it gave it a flavorful twist even if it was negligible. Speed HAS been Monk's identity, Hamon even says it himself in the early Pugilist quests, "Rather than trying to deal great damage with a single blow, he pummels his foe with lightning-fast combinations." This clarifies beyond the shadow of a doubt that they truly had no idea where to put monk for Stormblood and that the homogenization of classes is a non-issue to them.

[MauvaisOeil]

Speed HAS been Monk's identity, Hamon even says it himself in the early Pugilist quests, "Rather than trying to deal great damage with a single blow, he pummels his foe with lightning-fast combinations." This clarifies beyond the shadow of a doubt that they truly had no idea where to put monk for Stormblood and that the homogenization of classes is a non-issue to them.

That's really debatable honestly, due to animations like Bootshine, Demolish and Dragon kick beeing multi hit. You can consider them as "a flurry of fast blows" as much as a high skill speed.

To me the worst is simply that GL increase damage as much as attack speed, which allways make the ramp up of a monk boring in content where it is often triggered, namely Dungeons, fates, potd, open world content.
The combo of a long ramp-up, making it deal only 2/3 of it's true GCD potential, with the high requirement of positionnals, is really annoying outside of group content, and can even be annoying in them. I mean, many dungeons have breaktimes during which you can loose GL even if you end your last combo with a snap punch, and no AOE to trigger riddle of earth.

During ARR/HW, the monk had the "hardest" gameplay due to need of positionnal and ramp up, making it the greatest rewarded in personnal DPS. Now the trick is, the SAM took it's place with low constraint, but nothing changed for the monk.

It remains the job with a ramp up tied to a 3min CD, positionnals on every attack accounting for 22% of the low potency strikes, but now with a lower DPS than what it used to be.

[Waliel]

Brotherhood is, first and foremost, a monk personal DPS cooldown.

Imagine like, only 1 Black Mage being able to use Enochian, or 1 Dragoon able to use their Eyes (the other guy just loses theirs lol sucks for him). Or only one Bard being able to use any song at all. It's baffling.

I would just like to hop in and say that you're comparing DPS cooldown to a core rotational kit. Better example would be if only one Ley or Dragon Sight could be up at a time.

[Xaert]

That's really debatable honestly, due to animations like Bootshine, Demolish and Dragon kick beeing multi hit. You can consider them as "a flurry of fast blows" as much as a high skill speed.

It's not much of a debate since there's a multitude of moves across the board that feature more than one hit in one skill. Rage of Halone is 5 slashes, Hard/Power Slash and Delirium are two hits and Carve and Spit is three, Heavy Thrust has a thrust and downwards slash, most of Ninja's basic rotation has more than one hit. By that idea, does it not also fit the idea of "a flurry of fast blows?"

The ramp-up is also a part of the identity, as I view it. Perfect Balance is highly indispensable in Monk's kit, mainly opener, and the large CD of it (albeit ridiculous) emphasizes just how critical it is to maintain GL3 once it's achieved, which is also why Tornado Kick is so disappointing in its intended use. The solo content matter of positionals is a non-issue, positionals are meant for party play in EVERY aspect of itself. Most everyone agrees on the effect of RoE reset being triggered on damage being counterproductive.

But you're right, the job remains mostly the same, which is the point of what people have been saying in this thread, at least. It's like people become upset when their favorite job shows no advancement.

[Llugen]

tl;dr but the DRG changes are actually a small nerf, just much more streamlined for the execution/playability for the class

Also, if they ever seriously want to do something about DRG/NIN meta then they NEED to either give BRD/MCH their own piercing or remove piercing entirely, and balance trick attack. Monk is good right now, but literally nothing can compare to how good trick attack is when considering meta, and double ranged solidifies piercing home even harder.

[Tigerlilley]

Not only has Monks core rotation remained the same, the removal of Fracture and Touch of Death has made the class feel even more empty. Especially comparing to ninja who got a Ninki rotation added in to complement their core rotation.

Monk lost used abilities, kept useless ones and gained pretty much nearly nothing.