Monk ignored for 4.1

**Blacktestament7** · 10-07-2017 03:46 AM

To be honest, I've pretty much given up on Monk. I don't know if I'm in the minority with the people who don't like the MNK changes or not but I know that the ff team doesn't care enough to read these forums to actively change what they've done. As long as you have enough people willing to adapt to bad design and play it well enough that not enough complain, nothing's gonna change. At least, that's my two cents. MNK was sacrificed for SAM and at this point I've made my peace with that.

**Xau** · 10-07-2017 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

To be honest, I've pretty much given up on Monk. I don't know if I'm in the minority with the people who don't like the MNK changes or not but I know that the ff team doesn't care enough to read these forums to actively change what they've done. As long as you have enough people willing to adapt to bad design and play it well enough that not enough complain, nothing's gonna change. At least, that's my two cents. MNK was sacrificed for SAM and at this point I've made my peace with that.

personally, i tink what the only way the dev team could do something to change monk, is what said job is played by almost nobody....(and i doubt this scenario will happen) that, or they just delete it

, because otherwise, for them the job is just "fine"

i kinda doubt they will do nice changes for 5.0 on monk seeing what they lack of direction on how monk should play

**Zojha** · 10-07-2017 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Xau

i kinda doubt they will do nice changes for 5.0 on monk seeing what they lack of direction on how monk should play

The problem is probably not that they lack direction on how monk should play, but rather that they already reached the goal laying in that direction during ARR and now are struggling to come up with new gimmicks for a "finished" job.

It's like a painter that has finished his painting and then gets told to add something. First he adds some cows to the farm, then a scarecrow here, a scarecrow there and at some point, he runs out of ideas and starts adding UFOs and pyramids. And I like to think whoever conceived Riddle of Fire was at the UFO stage.

**Tigerlilley** · 10-07-2017 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Zojha

The problem is probably not that they lack direction on how monk should play, but rather that they already reached the goal laying in that direction during ARR and now are struggling to come up with new gimmicks for a "finished" job.

It's like a painter that has finished his painting and then gets told to add something. First he adds some cows to the farm, then a scarecrow here, a scarecrow there and at some point, he runs out of ideas and starts adding UFOs and pyramids. And I like to think whoever conceived Riddle of Fire was at the UFO stage.

I think this has been my favourite anecdote so far.
I'm pretty sure whoever conceived Tackle Mastery was freaking out after the UFO stage.

**Yneko** · 10-07-2017 11:07 AM

To me, the main problem is not with the RoF slowdown, but actually it's Brotherhood. The slowdown is there, because you are getting extra TFC at RANDOM. Example: you just used bootshine, steel peak,... oh, TFC is ready! but I'm 0.5s into next GCD, what should I do? use TFC and postpone my GCD (dps loss) or postpone TFC (potential loss on chakra procs)? With the option to double weave oGCDs it is not a problem. Problem is the word RANDOM.

Just today I had ZERO (!!!) TFCs from BH during one of our pulls on o4s during opener. If that happens - and it happens a lot - the slowdown feels terrible. If you are lucky, you'll get 2-3 TFCs. In the second scenario, you won't fell the slowdown because you have a lot of oGCDs to use and the overall flow feels actually faster. In the first scenario tho, RoF feels like sh*t.

Brotherhood is not within your control, which makes playing monk very frustrating (for me). You join a dog farm with 3 casters? Well, forget about extra TFC. You wanna run expert roulette with monk? Why don't you rather level up samurai? And even if you raid in a standard comp with 1 ranged physical, 1 other melee and 2 tanks, you can still end up with nothing, because the job's performance changed from pure player-skill-dependent to RNGxRNG+RNG (and a little bit of player skill). 30% change to proc? If it ain't 100% might as well be 10% and you wouldn't see the difference.

I do not want the slowdown from RoF to be removed (but I'm not against it, if BH would be changed). I want rotation I can count on. A rotation that works in 4man or heavy caster 8man, too. One RNG mechanic is OK, 2 is meh but a RNG mechanic that is party comp dependent with another RNG inside RNG is a bit too much...

I won't go into Tackle Mastery or OIL territory. They are useless. Period. Heavy rework or removal. End of discussion.
(Earth tackle is especially my favourite. You use RoE to keep your GL during downtime and you are stuck with a GAP CLOSING skill that has SHORTENED reach, which means you have to immediately switch to FoF, making Earth's Reply status even bigger joke it is. While I can see the idea behind RoF, this one I have no clue...)

Tornado Kick and RoE work agains each other. Again - rework or removal of one of those (and I do not mean changing recast time or potency buffs/nerfs). End of discussion.

I won't be giving ideas on how to change monk, because SE probably ignores negative feedback on monk threads anyway. I listed what is wrong because after 3 years of raiding as monk I'm not having fun anymore and I want to have fun again in 4.2.

**Tiraelina** · 10-07-2017 05:34 AM

I thought the direction was speed and mobility, then we got RoF.

I'm still baffled they removed the stun from Steel Peak and left it as is. Haymaker shouldn't have been removed either if our potency is going to be kneecapped solo still.

**Deceptus** · 10-07-2017 06:56 AM

And I thought monk was going to be the centerpiece class due to all the SB videos. . . man was I wrong.

IMHO Tornado Kick should be the 2nd combo action on the monk AOE combo. It makes sense in my head.

**Exiled_Tonberry** · 10-07-2017 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

I thought the direction was speed and mobility, then we got RoF.

Honestly, we should have made a bigger deal about this when Ninja was brought out. How they thought it was OK to release another job with speed matching a Monk is beyond me. Now it finally caught up to us. Speed is no longer our thing. Neither is damage, and neither is utility.

We're just kind of lost in the melee role. We don't excel at anything, so what's the point?
And to top it all off, we're the only job in the entire game with a buff so contradicting to our playstyle that it misaligns buffs like Demolish.

**Grimoire-M** · 10-07-2017 05:08 PM

Really the only problem with MNK is ele-tackle. Everything else that's new makes sense to some degree. RoF & Brotherhood lets people spam their one chakra skill while weaving in their other oGCDs, even with bad ping. That's the only reason the GCD delay was tacked onto it. The best we can do is adjust what's there atm. Nothing else will change until 5.0.

**Mikey_R** · 10-07-2017 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Honestly, we should have made a bigger deal about this when Ninja was brought out. How they thought it was OK to release another job with speed matching a Monk is beyond me. Now it finally caught up to us. Speed is no longer our thing. Neither is damage, and neither is utility.

Add to that that SAM also has a GCD reduction, granted, not as high (10% compared to 15%) but it is still encroaching on the speedy side when I would have put it on the slower heavy hitter side.

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

And to top it all off, we're the only job in the entire game with a buff so contradicting to our playstyle that it misaligns buffs like Demolish.

It can also delay oCGDs as well. If you double weave during RoF, one of them is going to be misaligned once RoF is dropped, meaning you will delay it more, then there is the potential that when RoF comes back again, it's misaligned with the GCD more, it's just creating a scenario where oGCDs can be shifted back further and further.

Thread: Monk ignored for 4.1

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