Revelations from Patch 4.1

[Cilia]

That is kind of sad. I've said that FF XII is my favourite setting in the entire main series (but not my favourite FF overall; that's X/X-2, for having better character arcs) but... I can't comprehend looking at the amazingly rich history and setting of Hydaelyn's various civilisations, and trying to insist that they're all to be replaced by Ivalice.

It's actually vice versa, kind of; the hypothesis is that Ivalice is a part of Hydaelyn. An Ivalice is, but not the Ivalice. (Case and point: Tactics is stated to take place long after XII, but Ba'Gamnan is wandering around here long after the War of the Lions. This is causally impossible unless Bangaa have extremely long lifespans, or this simply is not the Ivalice everyone knows and wants it to be.)

For my part, I'm completely apathetic toward Ivalice (and Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre). I simply don't care, which is why the references were old even before "Return to Ivalice" pushed it to critical mass. I'd much rather see new stuff - things original to Hydaelyn. Just to put it in perspective, we know more about the Ivalice on Hydaelyn than we do about Skalla, a completely original nation / territory / whatever. There are big references to other past games (i.e. Crystal Tower) but none as prolific as Ivalice, especially with the introduction of its own raid series.

(For the record, I did play half of XII but found the gameplay uninteresting. My favorite game is VII, though that's likely just because it's the first one I played; my favorite setting was IX's Gaia / Terra. I did play III's remake, and despite enjoying that game did not particularly care for the Crystal Tower series except getting to see Syrcus Tower remade in HD and the remixes of the World of Darkness music.)

[WhiteArchmage]

But between Tactics and 12 I noticed that in Tactics there is no summon for the Taurus stone that we see in 14's Rabanastre or at least we don't see anyone use it to summon a Lucavi, although I THINK that's the one that raises Malak in chapter 3. In 12, it corresponds to the esper Chaos. So that would insinuate a lot about the boss of the raid in 14, and fill in some holes that are now about 20 years old, by implication at least. [... ] Given how closely they're tying the lore of the ascians to 12, and 12 to Tactics, I am interested to see what, if anything comes from all this.

Ivalice-lore incoming, a bit ranty and sorta trivia-y for FFT

On a meta-level, it's because the guy from GARO was in charge of enemy designs this time around, and possibly Matsuno was having fun bringing this previously dummied-out boss to life; on a lore-level, I find it very interesting we have 2 Espers from XII in Rabanastre, then this previously unknown boss for Lesalia. Interesting yet appropriate given where Rofocale shows up, even the enemies changed from completely XII inspired (2 Espers, Seeq, and Bangaa) to Tactics (Rofocale and Argath) when we left Rabanastre for Lesalia.

Also interestingly, Rofocale (otherwise known as Focalor) is actually the SAGGITARIUS Lucavi, Duma being the one associated with Taurus,wether this means the rest of the previously dummied out Lucavi (Zebbeb/possibly-Zebub from Baalzebub, Sel, and Cheraub/possibly-Cherub) will make an appearance is unknown; granted, Rofocale was the only one TRULY dummied out as the other 5 don't even show up in the game's files, so this point could be moot.

Also also interestingly, the Lucavi associated with Pisces (Mateus' sign in XII) was originally Leviathan, which is why it's no surprise we got Mateus instead, we already have a Leviathan among our Primals (and Tactics HAD Levi as a summon). Hashmal showed up both in Tactics and XII

Also, since I just remembered, the main argument against this being the same Ivalice as the Ivalice Alliance games IS in the raid itself

The Cataclysm ages before Tactics wiped out every non-hyur race (or drove them further into hiding if you want to get conspiracy theorist), and we know for a fact it happened after XII not only because the races are still around, but besides that, the game takes place in the year 706 in the Old Valendian calendar, Tactics takes place way afterwards near the year 2000 Old Valendian, so it's impossible for the ruins of Lesalia to be BELOW Rabanastre.

I can pick apart Jenomis' flavor text if asked, too, they do give some tought on the "auracite" and other stuff lol

[Jonnycbad]

Duma was the Lucavi of the Taurus stone before FF12 came out.also it was Scorpio that revived Malak, as Malak had the 2 stones that Alma was carrying (scorpio and taurus)) and of the two, Scorpio is the red one, which Rafa pulls out.

[Mieck]

And then we have the alliance still punishing the scientist that also lost his memory but was still held accountable for his past actions. It is really a big moral question but at the same time what would happen if she somehow got part or the complete memory back and suddenly is a danger to all again? Hien still tried to kill her after knowing her story so I am not really sure if he will be like Lyse, especially since Yotsuyu did some even worse things than Fordola and on top of that enjoyed it. I am just not sure if he would take the risk of her getting it back or maybe even faking it but we will see.

I do agree the questions are big and very hard to answer. However, in the case of scientist and the Black Rose quest line, I think the point in the story that it becomes available is important. It is just after the humiliation at Rhalgr's Reach, and the Alliance / Resistance are licking their wounds. It is, canonically, a decision taken in the heat of war.

Justice of the kind Lyse is hoping to bring to Ala Mhigo is a result of her journey through the story. Justice meted out by the Alliance in the aftermath of a great defeat is rather different to what they are talking about now - the trials which will feature Yuyuhase and Laurientis (amongst others), and probably the Garlean centurion from Ala Giri whose name currently escapes me.

Hien is also in a similar position in the story during the assault on Doma Castle, in that I think it is his emotion and history, coupled with the heat of battle, that is driving him. In afterglow of victory, his attitude may well be merciful.

Basically, I agree with you that these are very big moral questions, but my addition is that the context of the time the decisions were taken is also something to be considered.

[Yuella]

It's just a different version of Ivalice just like 616 X-Men and Ultimate X-Men are different versions.

[Vulcwen]

And then we have the alliance still punishing the scientist that also lost his memory but was still held accountable for his past actions. (...)

It's to be expected that amnesia is not considered an escape from justice/punishment, although it might work as a mitigating factor.
I think Lyse wants to Ala Mhigo to become a nation that doesn't use the death penalty, so you'd expect punishments like lifetime imprisonment, exile and forced labour. I doubt Hien has any desire to reform the fundamentals of Doma, it's not in his character to push major reforms.

Then there is still the matter of what Gosetsu did in the name of the empire, somehow I expect Tsuyu to just be a tool to flesh out Gosetsu more.

[Quor]

It's cute that you guys think I'm fanboying for FFT/FF12. I like both of those games, but if you want to know what a man rally fanboys for, ask him how much mithril/gems he's spent on a specific realm in FFRK.

Over 1200 mithril in FF6 pulls as a day 1 player, and about 75 dollars on FF6 banners to boot. Yet RNGesus saw fit to make Yuna, Y'shtola and Ayame my waifus. You will be mine one day Terra.

As for Yotsuyu

I think amnesia is probably the culprit. It'll probably result in lots of painful flashbacks and encounters with the locals for her, once Gosetsu gets back to the mainland. Gosetsu will heroically come to her aid, knowing that it would ruin him in the eyes of his people even more, but also knowing that while she may be the "same" person, she has no recollection of what she has done, and in that sense is an innocent. If Tsuyu never regains her memory, I can see her and Gosetsu retiring to some out-of-the-way corner of the Steppe or Yanxia and living as father/daughter for the rest of their lives. But such a happy ending won't be theirs I'm afraid.

[Theodric]

Yuyuhase has, so far, shown to take enjoyment in his actions. Laurentius, meanwhile, has been shown to be rather conflicted. Given how easily led he proved to be it was a rather questionable decision to let him join the Crystal Braves in the first place and given what happened to Wilred it's not a huge surprise that he felt the urge to follow Ilberd and Yuyuhase. Self preservation can make people do things they regret simply so they can live to see another day.

As for Baut, whether he shows up in the MSQ's remains to be seen. His side quests make it clear he is likely to get a pardon, though.

[Alleo]

It's to be expected that amnesia is not considered an escape from justice/punishment, although it might work as a mitigating factor.

And I hope that they will go that route with her too (if she has real amnesia). I mean for me there is a point where a character has done enough and should not be free to live their life like nothing happened. Revenge wont bring someone back from death so its fine if people cant take it out on her but I believe that she (and Fordola too) should at least land in prison for that. Because if we stop justice for those two and let them go then they simply could never arrest anyone ever again which would be against any kind of justice system.

[Fenral]

With every new big reference, there's always someone ready to connect all the dots joining Hydaelyn to the rest of Final Fantasy in some giant multiverse, all the while ignoring the deliberate, obvious contradictions to the lore of the source game. It's the Lore forums' equivalent of a seasonal typhoon, so just board up the windows and wait it out.