In Regard to Housing in Patch 4.1

[Ashanto]

tl;dr: YoshiP and SE don't care about you, or your suggestions.

Everyone is naive. It amazes me, after reading through this thread, that people are actually thanking YoshiP ... for what? Saying the same sh**uff for the past 4 years? FFXIV has a well known history of botching releases, and the subsequent "fixes." Every time the player base comes out en masse, good ol' Yoshi hops on and spews some garbage about how they care, and are going to fix it. When has that ever actually happened?

To believe SE was ignorant of the results of 4.1's release, you have to suspend some pretty major disbelief. SE knew exactly what would happen with the release of 4.1. Believing otherwise is just stupid. Consider:

1. The Economy. There are 10 million subscribers across 65 servers. Assuming SE's efforts to ensure an even distribution of players, that's just north of 150k people per server. Only counting gil made from doing the Main Story Quest, every player should gain about 3 million gil (that's just SB btw). This alone amounts to 461+ billion gil per server. The total value of all 720 plots in Shirogane was 7.8 billion. Not even counting money players already had prior to SB, or players that didn't do MSQ, it should be quite obvious there was enough money floating around to buy up every plot on Shirogane many many times over.

2. The Servers. Whenever a flying f'ing f'up occurs, SE simply blames it on server load. They've done it more times that I can possibly count. Not even counting FF11, SE has 7 years experience running an MMO. And yet, can't seem to fix server congestion. After so many years, does anyone really believe they are unaware of their hardware limitations?

3. The Company. SE has released housing this way before. With similar results. To think this release was going to be any different is the very definition of insanity. I knew housing on my server was going to be gone in minutes. I stayed up all night, updated my client, watched the server status, and smashed the big green button the second it lit up. And got a lobby error. Next try: an SSL error. By the time I got in, I was in queue with 1800 other unlucky people. SE either has the dumbest programmers on the planet, or just don't care about connecting subscribers with their service. Which leads to:

4. The Players. After all the colossal f'ups, starting with 1.0, this game has continued to grow. To the point they offer a discount in their cash shop for idiots to buy sh*t at 30% off. Why? Because people DO. At the end of the day, SE and YoshiP don't give a flying f'ck about you, or me. It's lip service so you keep paying the subscription. It's US that pay their bills, and it's US that make this game possible in the first place. But nothing at all will happen as long as so many people think that travesty Yoshi posted signifies actual change.

SE is just going to bandage this sh*tstorm like always. And people are going to suck it up. It's already happening. Like always.

[Imsoangry]

tl;dr: YoshiP and SE don't care about you, or your suggestions.

Everyone is naive. It amazes me, after reading through this thread, that people are actually thanking YoshiP ... for what? Saying the same sh**uff for the past 4 years? FFXIV has a well known history of botching releases, and the subsequent "fixes." Every time the player base comes out en masse, good ol' Yoshi hops on and spews some garbage about how they care, and are going to fix it. When has that ever actually happened?

To believe SE was ignorant of the results of 4.1's release, you have to suspend some pretty major disbelief. SE knew exactly what would happen with the release of 4.1. Believing otherwise is just stupid. Consider:

1. The Economy. There are 10 million subscribers across 65 servers. Assuming SE's efforts to ensure an even distribution of players, that's just north of 150k people per server. Only counting gil made from doing the Main Story Quest, every player should gain about 3 million gil (that's just SB btw). This alone amounts to 461+ billion gil per server. The total value of all 720 plots in Shirogane was 7.8 billion. Not even counting money players already had prior to SB, or players that didn't do MSQ, it should be quite obvious there was enough money floating around to buy up every plot on Shirogane many many times over.

2. The Servers. Whenever a flying f'ing f'up occurs, SE simply blames it on server load. They've done it more times that I can possibly count. Not even counting FF11, SE has 7 years experience running an MMO. And yet, can't seem to fix server congestion. After so many years, does anyone really believe they are unaware of their hardware limitations?

3. The Company. SE has released housing this way before. With similar results. To think this release was going to be any different is the very definition of insanity. I knew housing on my server was going to be gone in minutes. I stayed up all night, updated my client, watched the server status, and smashed the big green button the second it lit up. And got a lobby error. Next try: an SSL error. By the time I got in, I was in queue with 1800 other unlucky people. SE either has the dumbest programmers on the planet, or just don't care about connecting subscribers with their service. Which leads to:

4. The Players. After all the colossal f'ups, starting with 1.0, this game has continued to grow. To the point they offer a discount in their cash shop for idiots to buy sh*t at 30% off. Why? Because people DO. At the end of the day, SE and YoshiP don't give a flying f'ck about you, or me. It's lip service so you keep paying the subscription. It's US that pay their bills, and it's US that make this game possible in the first place. But nothing at all will happen as long as so many people think that travesty Yoshi posted signifies actual change.

SE is just going to bandage this sh*tstorm like always. And people are going to suck it up. It's already happening. Like always.

I understand the rage, but it doesn't justify using false informations to back up your thoughts. First of all - it happened multiple times that they improved their stuff and listened to community. It's just wrong and unfair to claim that they never do. I'm not sure if you were around, but I remember ARR when we didn't even have a party finder. Almost every patch bring improvements to this game. Some big ones that come to my mind : token system for loot, cross world partyfinder and friends list, ultimate mode (coming next week), revitalising pvp (which was nearly dead back in a day), making raids more accessible for midcore groups, european datacenter, cooldowns reset, wondrous tails, improvements on timeworn maps, POTD as an alternative for leveling, Doubling the amount of futrnitures you can have. Many things that people diskliked were simply abandoned - red scrips capping, favours system, introducing more features to gold saucer. On top of that, add countless amount of quality of life changes people been asking for. Upon checking your lodestone, I don't think you've been here when ARR started. While SE does lots of things wrong, claiming they don't listen to community and that they never fix things is just false. Sure thing, sometimes they fail - look diadem or LoV. It's a natural process of every single game though. They experiment with stuff, and based on community reaction they adjust it accordingly. They officially apologised for patch 3.1 and mistakes they've made and guess what, since 3.2 this game has been getting better and better.

1) There is no 10 milions subscribers. There is 10 milion accounts made in the lifespan of this game. Actual active players number is not even 10% of that. As such, your entire math is just completely inaccurate and its pointless to discuss with it.

2) I've yet to see a company who'd handle server congestion flawlessly every single time. I played many other online games and I've honestly yet to see one smooth launch of a game/major patch outside of Heavensward which was nearly flawless. They messed it up with Stormblood and its famous Raubahn extreme. You can be sure though, that they did learn from this. I can bet money that similiar stuff won't happen when next expansion launches. As for major patches I somehow don't see a 'server congestion issues' that you're talking about. It was really bad when SB launched (remember 1 hour + queues ?) but they managed to fix that relatively quickly. I don't recall similiar situation since day 1 of ARR. There is way more active players now though. I'm somehow quite sure that they didn't fully expect so many players given how many active players Heavensward had.

3) Following your ridiculous logic, every ddos attack should be easily preventable right ? I mean, come on, internet has years of experience in handling it, yet it still happens somehow. I myself got pwned by the queue in the exactly the same way that you did. Yeah I hate it, but yelling at dev team and insulting their programmers is a childish approach and it brings you nowhere. I myself was bit surprised in how many people were suddenly interested in housing. I realise that shortages has always been a problem but it feels like community has never been as angry and vocal about lack of housing. Result is that Yoshida comes to announce new wards and some potential changes to how they're handled. I don't recall situation like this before. Sure, there were some angry folks here and there, but never on such a scale as right now.

4) That's a typical argument just for the sake of raging. I get it, I myself don't have a single mogstation item. I find some of their pricing to be a little off, but when you look at other mmos and gaming industry these days, it's like nothing. I highly recommend you to check other mmos cash shops. Focus specifically on biggest players on the market - WoW and GW2. Also check some "F2P" mmos where you often end up dumping twice as much. A lot of single player games have microtransactions. Countless DLC's on top of that and adding RNG mechanics in order to increase players addiction (Fifa FUT mode, countless "Loot boxes" in various games). Oh and how about that Assassin's Creed Origins Collector edition for 800 USD ? It's just wrong to blame SE for how majority of gaming industry looks these days.

Now, I don't claim that they will magically fix housing and in 4.2 everyone will be happy. I'm bit sceptical myself. They did manage to fix and improve many things in past though, and that's the reason why I'm trying to remain positive. Raging in a way you did won't make them improve nothing. Community that is vocal but also reasonable in it's feedback will.

[Aerlana]

4) That's a typical argument just for the sake of raging. I get it, I myself don't have a single mogstation item. I find some of their pricing to be a little off, but when you look at other mmos and gaming industry these days, it's like nothing. I highly recommend you to check other mmos cash shops. Focus specifically on biggest players on the market - WoW and GW2. Also check some "F2P" mmos where you often end up dumping twice as much. A lot of single player games have microtransactions. Countless DLC's on top of that and adding RNG mechanics in order to increase players addiction.

To be honnest, this way to think make me more salty than all Yoshidas fail

"They all do this, so no way to blame any of them"

I blame them all. I am on FFXIV forum i blame FFXIV... not Fifa.


BUT more... you said to watch F2P shop => shop is "their sub" Even if i dislike most of those shop they are here for better reason than FFXIV cash shop
GW2 = Buy2Play with NO sub. so to maintain server, they need income => shop
WoW => Yes, best way to compare. And wow did an error. Hard error? hum. Now most minions (every) that spawns in cash shop is for "make a wish" or other charity program when natural mistake in the world (as, recently, american hurricane). In the first month (where the most are sold) so blizzard dont get so much money from this. But ok... go compare?

If i dont do mistake, WoW cash shop will turn 7 soon => 14 minions at 10 euros each. and 11 mount at 25 euros each => 415 euros if a new player comes and buy all. They were added all along those 7 years
add 3 helm you can buy only with bnet app (not in game as other stuff) => +45 euros (3x15)

Then lets see our "not bad" cash shop. 3 years old
i count : appeareances with only female thing (not all so); mounts, minions, seasonnal mixt, seasonnal female, chocobo stuff, emotes, orchestrion roll. AND housing (counting each item only one time... even for those that would want more than 1)
each time, when there is a pack i used the price of the pack (so for example, the 5 scythe in 1 pack, not the price of each)
632,5 euros


So, lets see the bad cash shop from wow, bouh, he is bad. it allows us to get one worst!


I didnt count on both the server change, sex change xxx change... nor the lvling thing, I didnt count ... wedding (7/14 euros) and... didnt count retainers (you know, the sub you can choose to pay when you already you pay the game sub)



FIRST : stop "they all do, FFXIV can do"

[Aerlana]

tl;dr: YoshiP and SE don't care about you, or your suggestions.

Everyone is naive. It amazes me, after reading through this thread, that people are actually thanking YoshiP ... for what? Saying the same sh**uff for the past 4 years? FFXIV has a well known history of botching releases, and the subsequent "fixes." Every time the player base comes out en masse, good ol' Yoshi hops on and spews some garbage about how they care, and are going to fix it. When has that ever actually happened?

Marry me!

I understand the rage, but it doesn't justify using false informations to back up your thoughts. First of all - it happened multiple times that they improved their stuff and listened to community. It's just wrong and unfair to claim that they never do..

Hum, you are right, but, you forgot ALL THINGS they just said "sorry" and did nothing.

ARR release => fail => sorry => HW release => fail => sorry => SB release => fails => Sorry
(Raubahn Xtrem, DF congestion, Ixion cognestion, long queue, due to people using a trick they used in ARR release 4 years earlier... and never they worked on this issue)
Each time "sorry, we blame servers" ... 4 years it is the matter. Shouldnt they do a real thing about it? Yes they did european server, htey move NA server to larger building (for more) but... If they did well, SB release shouldnt be what we saw...

Housing : NEVER had enough house, without speaking about devious price at the release, the house were to expensive for most people... so dont care if there isnt enough for everyone... only few people could get it, others needed to farm more.

And now? 2 years people are saying "due new things, the game is boring"... and what now? lvl 70 => kill lakshmi, susano, farm their stuff... and then? daily dongeon. yay, Leveling the 15 jobs become a main activity...
2.1 = 3 dongeon / 3.1 = 2 dongeon / 4.1 = 1 and half dongeon (1 on .1/.3/.5 and 2 on .2/.4 he said) so less content. (Yes we get the supersadic thing... that is for a part of people doing sadic, that already are a part of the players...)


Yoshida did more "sorry" than fixing. What about diadem? people was happy to read/hear his apologizes. But now? where we heared? nope.

Most of upgrade you say he did was upgrade that were EVERYWHERE except FFXIV... Some where things we knew he would add after release, just was not ready for release.


For the housing, Yoshida and his team know better than each of us how much people activ there is on each server. Because, they are in the side where they need to know it. (For housing but not only)... AND you just have to read any census to know that 2880 plot isnt enough...


Now, i dont care when Yoshida speaks, i just want him to act.
BUT the fact is, Yoshida did a big mistake : personnal and FC housing are the same. And he dont know how to fix the issue it creates, maybe he doesnt care. Why waiting 2 years to add wards? And then saying "We fail to make all happy" ...

[Imsoangry]

Marry me!



Hum, you are right, but, you forgot ALL THINGS they just said "sorry" and did nothing.

ARR release => fail => sorry => HW release => fail => sorry => SB release => fails => Sorry
(Raubahn Xtrem, DF congestion, Ixion cognestion, long queue, due to people using a trick they used in ARR release 4 years earlier... and never they worked on this issue)
Each time "sorry, we blame servers" ... 4 years it is the matter. Shouldnt they do a real thing about it? Yes they did european server, htey move NA server to larger building (for more) but... If they did well, SB release shouldnt be what we saw...

Housing : NEVER had enough house, without speaking about devious price at the release, the house were to expensive for most people... so dont care if there isnt enough for everyone... only few people could get it, others needed to farm more.

And now? 2 years people are saying "due new things, the game is boring"... and what now? lvl 70 => kill lakshmi, susano, farm their stuff... and then? daily dongeon. yay, Leveling the 15 jobs become a main activity...
2.1 = 3 dongeon / 3.1 = 2 dongeon / 4.1 = 1 and half dongeon (1 on .1/.3/.5 and 2 on .2/.4 he said) so less content. (Yes we get the supersadic thing... that is for a part of people doing sadic, that already are a part of the players...)


Yoshida did more "sorry" than fixing. What about diadem? people was happy to read/hear his apologizes. But now? where we heared? nope.

Most of upgrade you say he did was upgrade that were EVERYWHERE except FFXIV... Some where things we knew he would add after release, just was not ready for release.


For the housing, Yoshida and his team know better than each of us how much people activ there is on each server. Because, they are in the side where they need to know it. (For housing but not only)... AND you just have to read any census to know that 2880 plot isnt enough...


Now, i dont care when Yoshida speaks, i just want him to act.
BUT the fact is, Yoshida did a big mistake : personnal and FC housing are the same. And he dont know how to fix the issue it creates, maybe he doesnt care. Why waiting 2 years to add wards? And then saying "We fail to make all happy" ...

How come that ARR release was a fail ? I was there, day 1 of early access and I remember that certain quest was broken (similiar to Raubahn extreme). It got fixed rather quick, I don't recall them writing essays on how they apologise, nor I remember any issues that'd prevent me from playing during 1st month. Heavensward launch wasn't a fail either. It was by far the smoothest MMO launch I have ever experienced. The only issue HW had at the start, is that they assumed that playerbase is better at this game and will improve over time. Sadly that wasn't the case. Complexity of jobs discouraged a lot of people and overall structure of 3.0-3.1 was just bad. Gordias was too hard for majority. Relic was too grindy as a result. New content was just poorly designed (diadem) or not needed in this game (LOV). 3.2 and next patches improved a lot on that matter though. Stormblood launch wasn't indeed the greatest I've seen. As I said in my previous post, I highly doubt they will ever put DF instance that is as long at the start of MSQ ever again. The only issues you mentioned are congestion related and I myself cannot fully blame SE for that. You have to realise, that way more people play this game than back in HW. What part of it is hard for you to understand ? If we had aroud the same amount of players as like back in heavensward, than you prolly wouldn't be seeing those congestion related issues. Worth mentioning is the fact that they got it fixed eventually.
I fully agree that housing at the current state is unacceptable. It's been enough waiting for them to change something but then again - community has NEVER spoken as loud as now. You can say as much as you want, but you just deny facts if you don't see that situation has never been as bad as right now.

We don't really get less content. We get less dungeons now. If all of them are as good as latest one, then I'm perfectly fine with it. We get around the same amount of content as usual. It's still by far WAY more than other mmos on the market provide. If you claim what I say is not true, show me 1 solid MMO that introduces as much content as FFXIV every few months. I'd gladly see that. People say 'game is boring' on every game forum. Check wow forums - people complain. Check GW2 forums - people complain. Check Wildstar forums - people complain. No matter what people always will complain, as it's literally impossible to create a game that'd have infinite amount of content for you to enjoy. That will never happen. I myself have lots of things to do, if this game is only doing daily dungeon for you, then maybe you should consider if its worth playing it at all. You say game is boring, but numbers prove you're wrong. Again - we have more active players than ever. How come that's the case given this game is so painfully boring as you claim ?
Also, what you said about their improvements is complete nonsense. I've been watching live letter prior to ARR release. I remember features they were promissing back then, and its undeniable that a lot of improvements has been made due to players asking for them constantly.

One thing comes to my mind, why not play those other games then ? Why you decide to suffer here, given the fact that according to your claims literally every mmo seems to be better than FFXIV ? This game is 4 years old. Rest assured, WoW didn't have many of the features and improvements that it has now, when it was 4 years old. It's just so unfair to say that nothing improves. I mean come on, do you even remember how this game looked like back in 2.1 ? I do, and while Im far from defending SE for current housing situation, I'd never say that huge improvements are not here.

To be honnest, this way to think make me more salty than all Yoshidas fail

"They all do this, so no way to blame any of them"

I blame them all. I am on FFXIV forum i blame FFXIV... not Fifa.


BUT more... you said to watch F2P shop => shop is "their sub" Even if i dislike most of those shop they are here for better reason than FFXIV cash shop
GW2 = Buy2Play with NO sub. so to maintain server, they need income => shop
WoW => Yes, best way to compare. And wow did an error. Hard error? hum. Now most minions (every) that spawns in cash shop is for "make a wish" or other charity program when natural mistake in the world (as, recently, american hurricane). In the first month (where the most are sold) so blizzard dont get so much money from this. But ok... go compare?

If i dont do mistake, WoW cash shop will turn 7 soon => 14 minions at 10 euros each. and 11 mount at 25 euros each => 415 euros if a new player comes and buy all. They were added all along those 7 years
add 3 helm you can buy only with bnet app (not in game as other stuff) => +45 euros (3x15)

Then lets see our "not bad" cash shop. 3 years old
i count : appeareances with only female thing (not all so); mounts, minions, seasonnal mixt, seasonnal female, chocobo stuff, emotes, orchestrion roll. AND housing (counting each item only one time... even for those that would want more than 1)
each time, when there is a pack i used the price of the pack (so for example, the 5 scythe in 1 pack, not the price of each)
632,5 euros


So, lets see the bad cash shop from wow, bouh, he is bad. it allows us to get one worst!


I didnt count on both the server change, sex change xxx change... nor the lvling thing, I didnt count ... wedding (7/14 euros) and... didnt count retainers (you know, the sub you can choose to pay when you already you pay the game sub)

Honestly, 'don't math me bro' as you fail hard time. Your calculations are inaccurate again as they don't take into consideration that lots of those mogstation items were obtainbable in the game already. Obviously GW2 has to make money somehow due to no sub fee, but Im quite sure you never played it as else, you'd be disgusted at frequency of their cash shop updates and pricing given how it has always been lacking meaningful content. Hell, it took them years to introduce raids (pretty bad ones I should add) and mounts. Also you fail to realise that WoW isn't updated with stuff to do as often as FFXIV, same thing with GW2 where most content is just 'meh'.
I'm not saying that cash shop is awesome, as I already stated I own literally 0 items from it and somehow I'm alive, even though I have a collector nature. If you feel they don't deserve extra money simply don't give it to them. It's as simple as that. No idea why you have bought collector edition of ARR, HW and SB knowing this game is so terrible.

Obviously you didn't repond to other points that I made but I'm not surprised as it's hard to argue with facts. Keep ranting if you wish or call community stupid for having faith in dev team. You have full right to do so. I just find it funny as even before Yoshida responded, there has been many people saying that SE doesn't give a damn and that we they won't even respond or do anything about it. Yet we're here in a thread that says more wards will be added along with some changes to how they're obtained. If they don't actually fix it, then I'd rant myself but for now patience is all we have. Just like they promised token loot system during Las Vegas fan fest, ranting to introduce it earlier wouldn't really change much.