Black Mage

[Kabooa]

Wouldn't be too far of a stretch lore-wise, would make Umbral Hearts more than a gimmick and would give BLM party usefulness. We're already considered "mana batteries". Might as well embrace it.

I don't disagree with the utility, just the execution.

That amount of MP is likely to be completely wasted or insignificant where it matters. It's weaker than a bard or machinist, and it's not strong enough to be useful when it's needed most.

Speaking personally, I've always been a fan of the 'Twin Mage' aesthetic, and given one half of that tends to be a Black Magic user...

Aetherial Manipulation: Attune to your targeted party member, traveling to their location. While within X yalms of this ally, they benefit from your Attunement and Leylines. Allies may end this by moving more than X yalms away. Only one ally may be attuned at one time.
Ice: Refreshes MP. (Ideally weaker than Song, but strong enough that it's more than 3% per 30 since you only spend a few ticks in Ice anyways.)
Fire: Increased Potency, Increased Resource Cost. (For when they want to pew pew and have resources to spare)

It's selective, so it can be stronger for the single individual. It also provides Black Mage a place in learning or in wipe recovery, where they can elect to deal less damage to feed MP into someone (And while B4 is still mostly DPS neutral, it does provide a non-wasted spell in Ice stance to give someone another tick of refresh) and progress further into a fight. Not as good as a Red Mage, but better than before, and rather than have a Flat party buff, the 'Fire' boost would also drain someone's TP/MP faster. Ideal for burn phases, less so for sustained DPS.

It's not truly "Raid buff", but it's a selective buff, which is acceptable on a cannon archetype.

[EllieShadeflare]

Black Mage is utterly fine. We got the fix we needed in 4.05, and we're constantly fighting with Monk for second best DPS.

And you know what? We don't need utility. We don't need gimmicks. We're a goshdarned self sustained man sized artillery, and most groups either take a Samurai or a Black Mage or both before considering utility. Why? Utility is nothing without stopping power, which we bring in droves. If anything, the only change we'd need is Fire IV being 280 base potency again, but that may be much. Umbral Hearts are utterly fantastic, especially since they allow us to hit objectively higher numbers than in HW, minus 20 base potency be damned because we get more Fire IVs per Astral Fire rotation.

It's also hilarious to see people complaining about this lack of utility in Black Mage, especially since in Heavensward, Bards complained about being there for the support and no damage.

[Kabooa]

Black Mage is utterly fine. We got the fix we needed in 4.05, and we're constantly fighting with Monk for second best DPS.

Almost everything you said here is refuted by both hard data and anecdotal evidence.

[EllieShadeflare]

Almost everything you said here is refuted by both hard data and anecdotal evidence.

And? Everything I've said is also supported by hard evidence.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=100

Oh look, 2nd place, right under Samurai.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/guides...-list#/slide/1

3rd place this time under Summoner (which, by the by, has often been considered weaker than it actually is, but both classes are more than capable).

But sure, let me argue further as to why Black Mage is fine (as a Black Mage since ARR, gotten my Kaladanda Lux, and am going through savage currently). Funny how you don't fully refute me though with actual... points? Just a "ur wrong".

Black Mage's primary flaw at the start of SB was that it could not perform the intended rotation without serious injections of Spell Speed (a stat, by the way, which happens to be our primary tertiary stat, followed by Direct Hit and then by Critical Hit... so technically not as much of a problem but still bad). It was nigh impossible to utilize Thundercloud, manage the overly long cast times of Fire IV and trying to keep Astral Fire/Enochian up at the same time. Players had to switch to the Heavensward 4x Fire IV rotation or cut out Thundercloud entirely.

What solved this? The reduction in cast time for Fire IV. We were now able to use the extra two Fire IVs that the Umbral Hearts were designed to accommodate, as well as keep Thundercloud relatively active... and the evidence shows quite nicely. Thanks to this, Black Mage was indeed able to essentially pull off the old HW opener at all times, and now pull off a whopping 8x Fire IV opener, all the while, having tools to maintain Astral Fire (holding Firestarter is great for said opener, using Sharpcast to confirm it), Thundercloud and the ability to line up almost perfectlywith the first Foul in our rotation.

Having this sheer damage is what make Black Mage valuable, in the same way that Samurai is. In fact, utility classes like Bard and Machinist run into the potential of being toothless if you double down on utility without bringing one of the heavy hitters into the fray. Also, among the DPSes, Black Mage is one of the few that can benefit from all three offensive cards put up by Astrologian and Scholar's ability to Chain Strategm is especially appreciated due to our already intense damage having a higher chance to crit than we can do on our own. Oh, and for maximum carnage? Summoner, a class that can already inflict serious pain on its own, can further empower a Black Mage using Contagion... and the buff to Devotion is only going to help further.

Black Mages and other raw DPS classes can mean the difference between hitting enrage or beating the boss, and the laughable attempt to downplay this and call BLM's role as a pure DPS as "bad" is somewhat foolish.

[Lelila38]

And still parties actively exclude both Blm and Sam. But yeah sure, everything is fine if people keep telling you to switch to Rdm.

[EllieShadeflare]

And still parties actively exclude both Blm and Sam. But yeah sure, everything is fine if people keep telling you to switch to Rdm.

Honestly, that sounds like a "find better groups" problem. No group worth its salt would refuse either of them. Well, unless they read the forums apparently.

also beyond embolden and battle rez, red mages are rather weak and don't perform all that well and rarely show up in the top ten groups

[Lelila38]

Honestly, that sounds like a "find better groups" problem. No group worth its salt would refuse either of them. Well, unless they read the forums apparently.

also beyond embolden and battle rez, red mages are rather weak and don't perform all that well and rarely show up in the top ten groups

I agree with you.
Still reality in pf is different. Im lucky enough to have a static that let's me play the class of my choice, but people that have to clear stuff in pf are in a bad position.

[Llugen]

The bottom line, as I said a few pages ago, has nothing to do with "meta", "doing fine", or "desire/capability", it has to do with the flaw in SE's logic.

REGARDLESS of what everyone thinks concerning the class, "pure damage as utility" is not only a bad design choice (parties will always want party utility over selfish DPS), but straight WRONG when you consider that SMN is already stronger damage (nullifying "damage as utility" off the bat), AND more utility.

This needs addressed immediately, without question, and there is no argument that can be made against it. Classes are to be balanced at their maximum potential, not "average player skill."

[BlackcatChen]

>Black Mages and other raw DPS classes can mean the difference between hitting enrage or beating the boss, and the laughable attempt to downplay this and call BLM's role as a pure DPS as "bad" is somewhat foolish.

Other way around, you're absolutely wrong. There's a reason why the fastest clears all have the same comp. And that composition doesn't include a blm or sam, at all.

Personal DPS is not equal to raid DPS contribution.

[Kairi-L]

i have no idea what i am saying ufufu

https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/98584

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