SMN 4.1 patch notes

[Sunako]

I only dislike whole mana management get removed. What is the point of having mana if you can not run out from the mana? You have bar that you never look at? They did same in 2.0 and reduced ruin mana costs once you get punished spamming too much ruin 2.

[inhaledcorn]

I only dislike whole mana management get removed. What is the point of having mana if you can not run out from the mana? You have bar that you never look at? They did same in 2.0 and reduced ruin mana costs once you get punished spamming too much ruin 2.

RDM has pretty much 0 mp management. BLM's mp management only come down to "Can I do another Fire 4 and still Blizzard 3 after?" Why should SMN have so much mp management in comparison?

[Rawrz]

RDM has pretty much 0 mp management. BLM's mp management only come down to "Can I do another Fire 4 and still Blizzard 3 after?" Why should SMN have so much mp management in comparison?

SMN will still have mp management. A reduced CD mana shift to feed your bards and miasma II spamming SCH. So it's not like SMNs will be able to forget about lucid completely.

[aldoteng]

SMN will still have mp management. A reduced CD mana shift to feed your bards and miasma II spamming SCH. So it's not like SMNs will be able to forget about lucid completely.

Who knows, maybe our optimal rotation involves swapping between Garuda for Contagion and Ifrit for Radiant Shield, since Summoning MP and cast times are now reduced.

There was another thread in Reddit debating for and against this possibility, but we never know until we see numbers.

[Ariomi]

Summoner can potentially do higher damage than a Black Mage or Monk. The problem is that you have to play it almost perfectly to achieve that which is something the developers should work on.

Besides, majority of Summoner's damage comes from various abilities, not just from Ruin III.

Hate to break it to you, This whole "Smn has higher damage potential Shtick" is completely untrue. Nothing more then a rumor spread by high tier Smn players that want to pretend that SE didn't ruin the class. Smn does not have the same dps potential as Black Mage or Monk unless the fight scrutinizes Monk or Blm.

Alte Roite for example. The top Monks and Black Mages are currently at 6.2-6.3k dps. Summoners are at 5.9k 300 to 400 dps lower. (And the current highest Smn parse has a balance uptime of 98% while the top Blm parse I am looking at does not. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MjYr3...=71&type=auras



Black Mage beats Summoner on every fight except Exdeath (probably due to all the movement), but then beats Summoner on Neo.

With the Nerfs to Ruin 3's damage, we will see how much that will impact Summoner's dps.

[Karshan]

That's not true, you weren't able to sustain Ruin III spam over a 10 minute fight no matter how you turn it. You could spam until low MP and inside trance but that's it. MP restoration is limited. Your to go spell was still Ruin II, which in Top parses sees about three times as much use as Ruin III. It's very simple, really. Now you have the ability to sustain Ruin III spam over the whole course of a 10 minute fight. No drawbacks attached beside a cast time.

Maybe I expressed myself wrong.

Ruin II was the most used BECAUSE NEEDED to weave or move. The go to when nothing needed was Ruin 3 or Ruin 1 if low MP. Just see a rota on a dummy, sure you Ruin II a lot to weave, but when not needed you just never do so.
Now it will be the same : Ruin II (or 4) when needed, Ruin 3 spam otherwise.
So it doesn't change much really, except since new Ruin 3 is 130 we lose a bit in average (instead of a mix of 150 and 100), but we lose less to go Ruin II (we lose 30, we lost 50 before).

As I said, I did the maths on an example from Eirene Snow and from an average SMN : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4426504

[Sylvain]

I keep reading people claiming how 3.0 smn was flowing but I fail to see how.
I don't see how adding an extra transe destroyed the flow of the job. Isn't exactly the same as before with just that bonus trans every 2 bhm?

[aldoteng]

I keep reading people claiming how 3.0 smn was flowing but I fail to see how.
I don't see how adding an extra transe destroyed the flow of the job. Isn't exactly the same as before with just that bonus trans every 2 bhm?

I don't dislike 4.0 SMN as much as most; I didn't think they destroyed the flow. Instead, I feel that we ended up with a more complicated flow across two minutes, which consists of two 60-second "clocks" where I am required to properly fit in two DWTs, and one Demi-Bahamut. Rouse timers are not tight enough over a 11 minute fight to be punishing.

It really isn't that bad especially now that we see our DPS is very competitive. But could it be better/smoother? Of course it could.

[KarstenS]

The problem with the Ruin IV proc is that it is a proc and outside of controll. Some of your CD's need to be used exactly at one certain point, having no Ruin IV proc ready for that or even delaying your proc so long until you are at that point might most certainly end up in a DPS loss.

Before this patch Ruin 4 was a cast. So you had to use Ruin 2 for every oGCD except you had swiftcast for it. From my point of view it is a buff, which makes it way better to use Ruin 4 proccs now.

except make you more mobile than a RDM for 16 seconds every minute.

SMN has been more mobile all the time. SMN is the bard of the casters.

Alte Roite for example. The top Monks and Black Mages are currently at 6.2-6.3k dps.

Never look at the top numbers. That are all try hard pushes where the entire group is focussing to push one member.

Getting back to your example, look at the statistics: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=42

These give a better point of view.

[Waliel]

Hate to break it to you, This whole "Smn has higher damage potential Shtick" is completely untrue. Nothing more then a rumor spread by high tier Smn players that want to pretend that SE didn't ruin the class. Smn does not have the same dps potential as Black Mage or Monk unless the fight scrutinizes Monk or Blm.

With the Nerfs to Ruin 3's damage, we will see how much that will impact Summoner's dps.

Yeah, about that:

Let's see...

Alte Roite: SMN above BLM on every percentile.
Catastrophe: BLM above SMN on every percentile.
Halicarnassus: SMN above BLM on every percentile except 99% and up, and above SAM on 95% and up.
Exdeath: SMN above BLM on every percentile, and above SAM on 80% and up.
Neo: SMN above BLM on every percentile.

Ignoring 100%, because nobody bases anything on that.