Tanks Letting DPS Die

[Kabooa]

If you pull aggro on a tank, you:
.

Did my job and he didn't do his.

The amount of time it takes to build an insurmountable threat lead is so god damned minimal that the fact it ever happens lands it squarely on it being the tank's fault, period. The Monk can't dump aggro, the Samurai can't dump aggro, the Ninja can only shift aggro. Not everyone has an aggro dump. They can't 1/2 it every 30 seconds like a dragoon, twice every 3 minutes like a Bard or Mach, or once every few minutes like casters.

It takes, literally, two threat combos in tank stance to hold a standard dungeon boss -forever-.

It takes 4-5 aoe threats in tank stance (which people do so the healer can do more damage) to never lose threat on an aoe pack. And if someone is single targeting, -2 of the 3 tanks are still using their AOE threats because that's their best damage-

Tank's fault for losing it. Plain and simple. It might be the DPS's fault for pulling the trigger, but the low ceiling is 100% -on the tank-

[Karshan]

It might be the DPS's fault for pulling the trigger, but the low ceiling is 100% -on the tank-

On that part EaMett agrees if you read her/him carefully.

read everything.

From both I see it's a language argument.

DPS fault, tank failure : would it be better to phrase it that way ?
If so we can answer original OP : you can prevent your fault, you can't prevent others failure, so play with someone you know and can get used to (vocal communication is best) to always avoid problems.
It's also easier if you can warn him : "I have my burst phase ready and diversion is not up at all, so either wait or pull the boss in tank stance with an aggro combo". On chat you usually don't have time.

[Chronons]

snip

Ill help you, seems like that would fall under:
- knew you were going to pull aggro and did it anyway (your fault)

Also,
The amount of skill it takes to deal a substantial amount of damage is so god damned minimal that the fact it ever doesn't happen lands it squarely on it being the dps' fault, period.

The amount of effort it takes to dps and heal is so god damned minimal that the fact it ever doesn't happens lands it squarely on it being the healer's fault, period.

Like I already said, you want all tanks to get good and anything otherwise is unacceptable. There will always be new players and casual ones. When you get one of them in your DF, watch your damn emnity.

[Tiraelina]

..

New tanks aren't going to have the ego of a mountain. If you are that new, there isn't going to be AoE pulling or real consequences for losing aggro. Freaking out because something isn't hitting you shouldn't be supported behaviour.

Tanking is just as easy and effortless as the other roles to perform equally, it doesn't belong on a pedestal. The flat bonus on increased enmity abilities is so insanely large you have to be trying to not keep aggro. Tanks are primarily tanks. If you are putting your own damage capability above a DPS role (Yes! this was being argued) and thus limiting them where death could be the outcome, you are doing it wrong.

[EaMett]

DPS fault, tank failure

Exactly!
Though I think the real sticking point is in having people agree that as a result of that, a damage dealer should hold their dps back in order not to grab aggro. People seem ok with this principle when the tank's failure stems from gear or being a novice. But remove those two factors and their position shifts.

[Kabooa]

Exactly!
Though I think the real sticking point is in having people agree that as a result of that, a damage dealer should hold their dps back in order not to grab aggro. People seem ok with this principle when the tank's failure stems from gear or being a novice. But remove those two factors and their position shifts.

The threat modifiers are so absurd at this point that it has to be a severe inequity in gear. And even then, you solve it by just staying in tank stance.

[Gravton]

Basically, if you queue as DPS into dungeon there are only 2 outcomes:
1. If you are good at your job = you are the bad one, because you don't care for tank's dps,
2. if you are bad at you job = everyone on reddit/OF complains about you and other DDs in DF doing low dps.

Lol well you still have one up on tanks and healers
1. If you use tank stance = you suck
2. If you don't use it = you suck
Or
1. If you dps = you suck
2. If you don't dps = you suck

[Gravton]

Damage fall off on most aoes in the game make this entirely possible. Usually on my BLM if I've ripped hate on my main target for fire 2/flare/foul I know that the other mobs likely arent too far behind.

Different views I guess. I tank in shield on trash. I don't normally lose hate cause I flash after every third eclipse. When I do lose hate on one mob it's from a concentrated single target burst.

[Kanitezz]

Yeah.................... Friendly reminder: As a tank, you're meant to "protect the party". Thats your first priority. So stay in tank stance if you have to so you can keep hate. IMO, no real reason to be so pissy about potency loss unless you're a dps job. Get over yourself.

[Okamimaru]

This is why parsers are a bad idea... people getting pissed because a dps is too low but dps has to hold back so he doesn't rip aggro from a tank who is getting praise for his dps...