Many other jobs are getting old skills back...

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

snip

Oh Fracture was a dps gain, but it wasn't anywhere near as useful as you think, purely due to it's low potency, which is why it's known as being such a bad skill. Comparing to both the other tank's DoTs of the time and DoT's from basically every other job in the game, it was a joke. The only undisputed time it should always be applied (unless invulns happened) was as you said, in a berserk.

It was ultimately 310 potency on Fracture vs 267 potency that was also heavily subjected to RNG, timing and certain conditions which if any happened, Fracture would be an auto-dps loss, if not barely breaking past a 20 potency gain. Even in some of the best WAR parses over Alexander, Fracture barely broke past 2% of a WAR's dps. I remember my times when I was speed-running in Midas/Gordias I had to meticulously plan Fractures due to how easy it was to turn into a dps loss. Contrast DRK where Scourge was roughly 200 extra potency over their combos. if it had stayed into 4.0, Fracture would have desperately needed a potency buff.

[MauvaisOeil]

Oh Fracture was a dps gain, but it wasn't anywhere near as useful as you think, purely due to it's low potency, which is why it's known as being such a bad skill. Comparing to both the other tank's DoTs of the time and DoT's from basically every other job in the game, it was a joke. The only undisputed time it should always be applied (unless invulns happened) was as you said, in a berserk.

It was ultimately 310 potency on Fracture vs 267 potency that was also heavily subjected to RNG, timing and certain conditions which if any happened, Fracture would be an auto-dps loss, if not barely breaking past a 20 potency gain. Even in some of the best WAR parses over Alexander, Fracture barely broke past 2% of a WAR's dps. I remember my times when I was speed-running in Midas/Gordias I had to meticulously plan Fractures due to how easy it was to turn into a dps loss. Contrast DRK where Scourge was roughly 200 extra potency over their combos. if it had stayed into 4.0, Fracture would have desperately needed a potency buff.

A dps gain remain a DPS gain, even if it's quite minimal, as is every "per GCd optimization" during raid buffs. You can't spit on DPS gains on one side, and accept/tolerate them on the other side. I can provide the maths if necessary but I guess it won't have to. Especially in a setup where you had to apply both path and eye, and your average damage per combo was a bit lower than with butcherblock weaved.

You lost exactly 2 rage/abandon stacks per period of 90s (berzerk cooldown), or even only 1.5 if you don't count the mandatory berzerk one. Would this one and half of a stack change your rotation, or allow your to avoid the "berzerk ready already 5 stacks" that happened once every two berzerk windows ? No. If you used a Fel cleave before restacking, that 1.5 more stack would push your next berzerk window 5gcd away, plus the FC, 6 then, delaying your burst windows , more and more...

That withouth factoring it was a DPS gain overall, even with stacks, etc..

I'm not saying it was "the best dot of all time" but it was working and it added a few damages, far beyond DRK's Dot, but a few addition.
It was quite more fun on monk, honestly, due to their REALLY LOW potency per attack, but it could have been tweaked and added with a trait increasing it's functionnality with the warrior's new implementation instead of beeing deleted entirely.

[Tegernako]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

Is it possible to block people? I can't handle their amazing arguments.

Did you read my first sentence then stop? I was pretty detailed in my analysis. The skills pld lost are in the second sentence. .

No I ignored that part because it was utterly irrelavent. By your logic I should include all the cross class skills WAR lost as well, which would make the comparison even WORSE for PLD in terms of which job got the better deal.

I'd just like to point out that, while PLD did keep shield swipe, it's not a stun. Brutal Swing and Low Blow were both oGCD stuns weaved into dps rotation... I think the more proper comparison would be to Spirit's Within which had it's silence effect removed. Now, they could've left WAR and DRK with the ability but just removed stun effect, that's debatable at least. But I don't really consider button bloat as a valid excuse. I have just enough slots on DRK, more than enough slots on WAR, and not enough slots on PLD. PLD has 2-3 too many abilities to fit them all on controller. Why get it just right on the other 2 but leave so much bloat on PLD?

I addressed that actually. I mentioned that if making it GCD was the reason why they kept it then they should have done the same for WAR/DRK and switched them from OGCD to GCD. It's a nerf but it's also a skill they get to keep and don't have to slot if needed freeing you up to choose another skill.

[Aana]

I'm not saying it was "the best dot of all time" but it was working and it added a few damages

For a button whos only purpose was to increase damage (it had no additional effect), then it is entirely unimportant. In getting rid of bloat SE has been culling out abilities that had no unique function. Fracture and Scourge had no function and were obvious choices to remove. Both replaced that 'damage over time' effect by simply buffing the jobs dps (deliverance +5% damage, Defiance+5%, Darkside+5%). It was an unnecessary button that had limited use, miniscule effect and that effect was purely damage. Just bake in the damage and get something that does something to gameplay. Im fine with 1 hit dots dying. Sure they did damage and were used, but that doesn't mean it was a good skill.

Frac had its time before DPS stances when avg pots were lower and we had few buttons to start with. Its just outdated, uninspired and underpowered now.

[Tegernako]

For a button whos only purpose was to increase damage (it had no additional effect), then it is entirely unimportant.

Which brings me to the point I brought up in my original post, WHY NOT CHANGE THEM instead of simply removing them? They did it for PLD. Why not the other two tanks?

[Aana]

Which brings me to the point I brought up in my original post, WHY NOT CHANGE THEM instead of simply removing them? They did it for PLD. Why not the other two tanks?

Why does it matter really? If they said "hey fracture sucks. Lets make a new skill. 300 pot, war theme of scaling with HP, ogcd! YEAH!" vs "Hey Frac sucks. Lets make it a 300 pot, war theme of scaling with HP, ogcd! YEAH"

The skill was bad. New skills are better. Who cares if it has the same icon, name, animation. We have reworked skills and thats the important part. Not if its 'redone' or 'new'.

[Tegernako]

Why does it matter really? If they said "hey fracture sucks. Lets make a new skill. 300 pot, war theme of scaling with HP, ogcd! YEAH!" vs "Hey Frac sucks. Lets make it a 300 pot, war theme of scaling with HP, ogcd! YEAH"

The skill was bad. New skills are better. Who cares if it has the same icon, name, animation. We have reworked skills and thats the important part. Not if its 'redone' or 'new'.

lol the new skills for DRK/WAR are a mixed bag. You have no idea what you are talking clearly at this point if you think shake it off, onslaught, and quietus are upgrades to anything at all. Even delirium is debatable.

[Mekhana]

4.0 in a nutshell:

We will take away half your kit and give them back in a different way but worse. Here are your flashy button and gauge tho so you don't whine too much.

Please look forward to it!

[RLofOBFL]

Onslaught and Delirium are undoubtedly upgrades??? And Quietus is technically an upgrade over abyssal drain on a dps level but it doesn't make you invincible anymore like DA Abyssal spam.

Shake it off is 100% garbage but it will be alright in 4.1.

[Quor]

Fracture should have been given the Goring Blade treatment and tacked onto Skull Sunder as a fourth combo with 10 beast gauge generation and a buff to it's initial damage to put it on par with Goring Blade. Then we would have BB for aggro, SE for self buff, SP for generation and Fracture as a strong DoT to manage. That would certainly be more interesting than the SE/SP/SP combo chain that's used ad nauseam nowadays.

DRK also needs something for their combos, as spamming SE combo 100% of the time gets rather boring.