Many other jobs are getting old skills back...

[ChloeGrace]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

[347SPECTRE]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

That's the thing, DRK IS the job we like and we're getting shafted. It's more than likely that DRK is going to eventually get completely shunned by the community if things continue along this track, until it's finally fixed in 5.0. People don't want to wait 2 years just to enjoy their favorite job.

[Gravton]

Did you read my first sentence then stop? I was pretty detailed in my analysis. The skills pld lost are in the second sentence. My pld could use them in HW, it can't in SB. You want your skills back / reworked. All of the tanks are about even on dps, but you want war & drk dps to go up with pld remaining the same. You want war to get their offensive kit back AND keep the def kit they are now getting from pld. The only thing I agree with, is that drk does need one more def cd at mid lvl for running dungeons. You have no idea why making war/drk better will make pld worthless? Were you a pld through HW? This is a dps game and you are asking to increase the dps on 2 tanks and not the other...

[Erin_Singh]

Did you read my first sentence then stop? I was pretty detailed in my analysis. The skills pld lost are in the second sentence. My pld could use them in HW, it can't in SB. You want your skills back / reworked. All of the tanks are about even on dps, but you want war & drk dps to go up with pld remaining the same. You want war to get their offensive kit back AND keep the def kit they are now getting from pld. The only thing I agree with, is that drk does need one more def cd at mid lvl for running dungeons. You have no idea why making war/drk better will make pld worthless? Were you a pld through HW? This is a dps game and you are asking to increase the dps on 2 tanks and not the other...

"From class actions to role actions pld lost bloodbath, mercy stroke, fracture, foresight, and stoneskin."

Those are not Paladin skills, those were cross class skills. We are talking about exclusive skills, like drk's delirium, or scourge.

And even then:
-bloodbath: it was a War skill (Disappeared for all tanks) Was considered good
-mercy stroke: War skill (Disappeared for all tanks) Was too niche too be really useful
-fracture: War skill (Disappeared for all tanks) Was bad
-foresight: War skill (Disappeared for all tanks) Was not great ? But better than nothing
-stoneskin: Whm skill (Disappeared for all healers and Paladin) Don't know what was Stoneskin cast time but I remember it clipped a lot on gcds, so it was clunky to use. (plus, boss could break your cast)

[Gravton]

"From class actions to role actions pld lost bloodbath, mercy stroke, fracture, foresight, and stoneskin."

Those are not Paladin skills, those were cross class skills. We are talking about exclusive skills, like drk's delirium, or scourge.

We are talking in circles. If pld could use them in HW and can't use them now...then we lost them. What does pld gain from role actions that they didn't have in HW? What does war/drk gain from role actions? You want both. Your not asking for these skills to be put on the role list. You want them straight into the jobs and keep what pld is giving. So your asking to bring back the old class system but this time we should exclude pld because reasons.

So in a nutshell war/drk should keep what they lost plus the 5 skills from role actions. Pld should only keep what they had with nothing additional. That seems fair and balanced to you?

[Erin_Singh]

We are talking in circles. If pld could use them in HW and can't use them now...then we lost them. What does pld gain from role actions that they didn't have in HW? What does war/drk gain from role actions? You want both. Your not asking for these skills to be put on the role list. You want them straight into the jobs and keep what pld is giving. So your asking to bring back the old class system but this time we should exclude pld because reasons.

Why are you talking of role actions ? Or the old class system ?

In sb, paladin lost Rempart, Convalescence, Provocation, awareness. Lucky you, you got them back.
Plus, you gained 5 SKILLS instead of 4.

War and Drk were already using these, so we had to take them back again, now let's have a look at what drk lost: shadow wall, scourge, low blow, reprisal, Dark dance, Delirium.
Shadow wall was replaced by rempart, okay, why not. Though, it hurts drk visual identity, because animations are not the same.
Scourge was a key skill for drk, gone.
Low blow was a stun that did damage, a worst version is available in role actions.
Reprisal was raid utility and did damage too, you can now find a worst version in role actions.
dark dance was a defensive cd that could be used to proc Reprisal and was great in dungeons. Gone
Delirum was a combo finished and brought raid utility. Gone

See ? One way or another, everything paladin lost, they could have it back, and they got even more than drk.
The only thing drk can have back is reprisal, and it's only a husk of it's former self.
And all the changes hurt in one way or another drk's flow and visual identity

Are we that selfish when we want SOME skills back ? After everything we lost ? We have less damage, less mitigation, than both pld and war and less utility than pld, and you find it fair ?!

(not talking about war because I don't have it 70 and haven't played it in hw)

[Gravton]

I'm going to try one more time because I don't know how else to explain it. Let's look at drk vs. pld then. (I'm just going to go through what you listed, without even contesting them.)

Drk lost shadow wall, scourge, low blow, reprisal, dark dance, delirium. You want those 6 abilities back PLUS keeping the 4 abilities from pld and the one additional ability from role actions. 11 abilities.

Pld lost rampart, Convalescence, Provoke, Awareness. Pld gets to re-equip them with one additional. 5 abilities. (We don't get to re-equip what we lost from class...war/drk do.)

Even though all the tanks are comparable in dps. You want to hike up war and drk dps, def, and sustain. Then keep pld exactly the same and don't see that it would burry pld in terms of balance. I've already stated twice now, drk should get one extra def cd.

[Azerhan]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

Wow. Top kek.

Luckily you are not a developer from SE...

[Tegernako]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

Is it possible to block people? I can't handle their amazing arguments.

Did you read my first sentence then stop? I was pretty detailed in my analysis. The skills pld lost are in the second sentence. .

No I ignored that part because it was utterly irrelavent. By your logic I should include all the cross class skills WAR lost as well, which would make the comparison even WORSE for PLD in terms of which job got the better deal.

I'd just like to point out that, while PLD did keep shield swipe, it's not a stun. Brutal Swing and Low Blow were both oGCD stuns weaved into dps rotation... I think the more proper comparison would be to Spirit's Within which had it's silence effect removed. Now, they could've left WAR and DRK with the ability but just removed stun effect, that's debatable at least. But I don't really consider button bloat as a valid excuse. I have just enough slots on DRK, more than enough slots on WAR, and not enough slots on PLD. PLD has 2-3 too many abilities to fit them all on controller. Why get it just right on the other 2 but leave so much bloat on PLD?

I addressed that actually. I mentioned that if making it GCD was the reason why they kept it then they should have done the same for WAR/DRK and switched them from OGCD to GCD. It's a nerf but it's also a skill they get to keep and don't have to slot if needed freeing you up to choose another skill.