Many other jobs are getting old skills back...

[Tegernako]

Yes, it's true (I miss a lot of capacity of the DRK, trust me ), but it's the case for most jobs in the game.
But I cringe alot about the gameplay of the DRK, I feel it very boring, and during the same time, WAR is really fun to play.

It's funner to play. But it lacks the berserk feel of HW that felt so fluid and aggressive.

We won't ever get that back but at least it's not SB launch WAR bad.

DRK just needs help with dps and utility. Survivability doesn't need much tweaking but that does need to happen as well.

[Gravton]

Seems your really sore at pld or losing some skills. But your suggestion is to give war/drk the skills they lost AND let them slot all the pld skills from the job role? So pld should have to re-equip what they lost and the other 2 get extras?

[Tegernako]

Seems your really sore at pld or losing some skills. But your suggestion is to give war/drk the skills they lost AND let them slot all the pld skills from the job role? So pld should have to re-equip what they lost and the other 2 get extras?

I suggested giving back skills that would help benifit the classes, which doesn't necessarily mean giving them all back.

PLD techincally didn't lose any skills so therefore slotting them back isn't an issue.

WAR/DRK lost skills so them gaining some back would put them more like their HW counterparts and on more equal ground with PLD. It's not really an issue for PLD since they didn't change at all negatively since the only changes from HW to SB for PLD were positive changes.

Giving them back old skills would buff those two jobs without having to nerf PLD.

[Azerhan]

Seems your really sore at pld or losing some skills. But your suggestion is to give war/drk the skills they lost AND let them slot all the pld skills from the job role? So pld should have to re-equip what they lost and the other 2 get extras?

Maybe Role Actions wasn't a good idea in absolute... At least for all actions.
I mean, look at Rampart, for the example.
It's basically the same thing that Shadowskin and Foresight. So... Why did they have removed those two just for Rampart? Rampart, that uses the PLD's animation, since the DRK's one for Shadowskin was really beautiful.
And some abilities like Provoke, Shirk... They should be include in all tanks's set without compensation, since it's basically the goal of the tank: manipulate aggro.

I don't understand the point of Role Actions. They are just actions that should already be in all tanks's set...

[Gravton]

I don't understand the point of Role Actions. They are just actions that should already be in all tanks's set...

I agree, role actions are dumb. I main pld, and I'm just saying that if other tanks get to use their old abilities and my abilities while I only get access to my abilities, I'd think that it would be equally unfair. There is no reason why drk/war should get old abilities back and keep the pld abilities. If all tanks get access to them then fine. But all I see is, I want my old toys and pld's toys.

[Azerhan]

I agree, role actions are dumb. I main pld, and I'm just saying that if other tanks get to use their old abilities and my abilities while I only get access to my abilities, I'd think that it would be equally unfair. There is no reason why drk/war should get old abilities back and keep the pld abilities. If all tanks get access to them then fine. But all I see is, I want my old toys and pld's toys.

In fact, PLD is one who has the best luck here (I don't know how to say it in english, sorry, hope you'll understand what I mean)
They """""just""""" lost four abilities that will be use for two of them everytime (Rampart, Provoke), Convalescence sometimes (not necessary) and Awarness... Hum, Awarness.

But, they haven't lost any dps abilities, even their stun.
WAR lost: their dot, their stun, and their finisher. I don't count Bloodbath, was really too OP (and I was using it both in DRK and WAR)
DRK lost: their dot, their stun, an OGCD, and a combo.
More, if you count all you have before, you can see they lost Foresight, which was in Role Action before... They were already the weakiest tanks in the game, and now, they lost one of them Cds...

I've just passed PLD 70 two days ago, and I always wondering why I keep playing DRK. I don't enjoy it anymore, we've lost all that things that make DRK... The DRK.
Sorry if I cringe alot about it, but now I'm levelling my WAR and... It's so fun XD

[Gravton]

I understand you, but I think you are forgetting that pld lost stuff too. From class actions to role actions pld lost bloodbath, mercy stroke, fracture, foresight, and stoneskin. So you are effectively asking for HUGE dps gains from your old kit and keep the defense gains you now get from pld's old kit. Then saying pld doesn't lose anything. Let me ask you this, does this game value mitigation or damage the most? Asking for the def and the dps puts pld in the exact same spot as in HW.

I will concede that drk needs another mid lvl def cooldown. Making dark dance a flat damage reduction and not just magic would be enough. Maybe add a DA effect to double the reduction.

[Tegernako]

I understand you, but I think you are forgetting that pld lost stuff too. From class actions to role actions pld lost bloodbath, mercy stroke, fracture, foresight, and stoneskin. So you are effectively asking for HUGE dps gains from your old kit and keep the defense gains you now get from pld's old kit. Then saying pld doesn't lose anything. Let me ask you this, does this game value mitigation or damage the most? Asking for the def and the dps puts pld in the exact same spot as in HW.

I will concede that drk needs another mid lvl def cooldown. Making dark dance a flat damage reduction and not just magic would be enough. Maybe add a DA effect to double the reduction.

PLD literally lost no skill or effect it can't get back.

And it suffered zero nerfs to any of its damage or mitigation (Actually both damage and mitigation were dramatically increased, in stark contrast to both of the other tanks) . And instead of removing "complicated" or "pointless" skills the devs reworked them to fit the class better AND gave it a brand new skill. No other tank was treated this way.

You keep saying "PLD lost stuff" but you don't name anything either.

On a technical level, yes PLD did "lose" stuff to the job action thing. But that "loss" is mitigated by just slotting everything it "lost" back. WAR/DRK can not do that. And it's clear they suffered harshly for it.

On the official job description for them it says this:

* The following actions were removed with the release of patch 4.0: Foresight, Fracture, Bloodbath, Brutal Swing, and Mercy Stroke.

* The following actions were removed with the release of patch 4.0: Rampart, Convalescence, Provoke, and Awareness.

* The following actions were removed with the release of patch 4.0: Shadowskin, Scourge, Low Blow, Reprisal, Dark Dance, Delirium.

There is NO concievable world where PLD suffered "losses". There was ZERO negatives for PLD coming to SB. NONE. Period. End of story.

WAR/DRK were butchered, given jobs that suffered harshly from either terrible party utility or in the case of warrior literally ZERO party utility, survivability, job identity, dps, un-fluid and half finished jobs with terrible mechanics that harshly punished any deviation for less dps.

They have KIND OF fixed WAR. But the fact that they have had to so drastically change the job so much and completely re-do an entire skill (something you expect FROM the expansion NOT AFTER) just to make it competitive speaks volumes about just how bad it was. Same applies to DRK, and they don't even get mentioned at all basically.

The skills that were taken from us would fix pretty much every single issue these two jobs have. They don't have to give us back all the skills. They don't have to give us back in the original form even. But by giving more options based on what we had before you fill the gaping holes in our jobs that were NOT EVEN REMOTELY filled by the new actions and job skills they got in 4.0.

And this stands in stark contrast to PLD were the best argument against this people can dig up is "But what if PLD isn't the best at everything?". And I have absolutely no idea how people think that just because WAR/DRK get better that it would make PLD completely useless, because that thought process ignores every single buff and gain and all the utility PLD got in SB. That does not just magically disapear just because the other jobs got better.

WAR in HW would not have been made trash if SE had actually done something to fix PLD's issues in HW. And PLD in SB will not magically be forgotten simply because WAR/DRK filled the gaping holes left in their jobs.

[ChloeGrace]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

[347SPECTRE]

ITT: make WAR grossly OP like back in HW, and DRK such a close second that PLD is once again completely shunned by the community.

Stop whinging and deal with your job changes, or switch to something else that you like.

That's the thing, DRK IS the job we like and we're getting shafted. It's more than likely that DRK is going to eventually get completely shunned by the community if things continue along this track, until it's finally fixed in 5.0. People don't want to wait 2 years just to enjoy their favorite job.