WAR raid "UTILITY" (Tank Balanced achieved?)

[Azerhan]

[QUOTE=Claire_Pendragon;4419704]

DRK lost Scourge, but Scourge wasnt made for the purpose of making DRK do more dmg, it was made to make DRKs have something else to look at in the UI.

Scourge, a dot that makes 500 potency over the time. But "it's not for dps". Lel.
A dot is here to do dps even if you have to move. It's that all.

Btw, tanks aren't balanced. At least, PLD is, WAR soon with the new Shake it off, but DRK...
Less dps than other two tank. Less self utilities than other two tanks. Soon, less party utilities than other two tanks.
And I don't mention the gameplay, WAR 60 is way funnier than DRK 70...

I don't understand why. Except the fact that PLD's dps was very too much low during HW, the paradigm PLD MT, WAR OT and DRK the "I'll take this empty chair, m'kay?" was really good.

[Claire_Pendragon]

snippy snip snip

For the most part I agree, though only difference id argue is that you couldnt DA delirium before, so the option to DA or not, "almost" reaches this.
As for anticipation, yeah, it is true i tend to take it off for quite a few endgame fights, dependent on how our group works.

Scourge, a dot that makes 500 potency over the time. But "it's not for dps". Lel.
A dot is here to do dps even if you have to move. It's that all.

Im not saying a DoT doesnt do dmg.
I'm saying the mechanical function of a DoT is to be mechanically different from your other abilities. (all of your abilities, are designed to make sure the enemy dies before you do, thats a given)
123 combo wouldnt feel much different if you just slapped a 4 at the end.
so as to avoid spamming the DoT, its dmg requires a certain amount of time to pass.
but why do you think just about every job used to have DoTs, and coincidentally, most of the "Timers" that jobs had to worry about, became easier or lessened when gauges came out?
Why did gauges only come out now?

PS3 limitations.

They wanted to make differing mechanics to each job, but they also had to fit within the limitations of the UI, and make rotations that werent just a 4th step or 5th step added.

In short, all the DoTs, and short term Buffs, and Buffs that get consumed, were just a different way of portraying "resource bars"
(an example being wrath. 5 stacks is either viewed as 5 combo points, or a bar which upgrades 20%, but is now a bar, which can be affected by increments other than 20% now.)

Im saying DRK lost its DoT, because the DoT was mechanically only there to add a level of complexity.
(Which they failed to recreate with the blood gauge. Regardless if its better or worse, or if the blood gauge isnt damage over time, but damage in a small burst after being built up.)

[Tegernako]

For the most part I agree, though only difference id argue is that you couldnt DA delirium before, so the option to DA or not, "almost" reaches this.
As for anticipation, yeah, it is true i tend to take it off for quite a few endgame fights, dependent on how our group works.
)

True enough.

But your explanation for scourge makes no sense when you think about PLD. Because all the skills the other tanks lost, PLD kept.

[MyaValentine]

True enough.

But your explanation for scourge makes no sense when you think about PLD. Because all the skills the other tanks lost, PLD kept.

pld was the simplest class in the game, all throughout ARR and HW I loved paladin for the eastetic for what it was and what it was supposed to be, if they took anything ANYTHING from pld might aswell leave it a aouto combo class because simply it can't get any simpler. thank fully SB change this I do believe drk needs scourge I think they actually oversimpplified the class too much and now it feels like pld did back in hw.

[Claire_Pendragon]

True enough.

But your explanation for scourge makes no sense when you think about PLD. Because all the skills the other tanks lost, PLD kept.

Yeah, thats true.
While I dont know, I was thinking that the jobs were assigned to different people or groups, and so DRK and WAR were under a "How can we simplify" group, and PLD was under a "How can we make them complex" group.
But thats just speculation of course.

Darkest Night is OP. that's 1 redeeming quality for you.

For self mitigation, 20% Hp is nice, but the MP cost isnt so nice. (Not terrible, since you at least get blood spiller)
For others, its not as nice. Its quantity over quality, in this example, cover being the better. (Since Cover has a longer CD)

But I do agree it has some benefit for being on a shorter CD.

Really? Darkest Night isn't raid utility because "people aren't depending on a 5k shield". Then wtf is every paladin move?

Can we at least stop the blatant hypocrisy? A 5k shield available every 15 sec that can be used on anyone, or a 10k shield on yourself ISNT the vaunted raid utility? If war got that exact same ability Drks would be crying themselves to sleep rocking back and forth saying "War is the darkest night!" Hell people have tried to trot out holmgang as 'raid utility' lately in this very thread.

Blackest knight is absolutely raid utility. "Its the mitigation they need". Yes all those OT darks are really using it for mitigation. Please.

Drk is in a bit of a rough spot atm, but lets not go delusional.

TBN is single target, which does mean its meant for the MT.
If you're the MT, its no longer what most people consider raid utility (though it technically is raid utility)
If you're the OT, its 10% of your HP, which honestly isnt enough to guarantee the safety of a tank.
Any tank buster that can kill a tank, can have high and low RNG attached, to the point where 10% wont be enough, or will be more than enough.

So most of the time it will be wasted, and some of the time it would be useful.
If thats the case, there are more effective ways for that tank to mitigate the dmg.
(also, im not suggesting TBN is useless, just how its not going to be the deciding factor. My group used TBN mixed with Feint on O3S when awareness was down, for example, and when combined, was enough to guarantee the survival of the MT.)

Being on a 15s CD isnt really a real selling point. sounds nice on paper, but which boss throws out that many TBs? either they throw them out with less than 5s apart, or they throw them out MUCH further apart.
(mainly to make sure all tanks can handle it)
Doing it any quicker than that is bad for the DRK.
So I agree its raid utility, and for the same reason i say holmgang is raid utility. It can only make things easier for the group as a whole.