When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[TouchandFeel]

If you don't want to be grouped with someone, that's your prerogative. But that's what the "Leave" feature is for. It's NOT what the "Kick" feature is for.

If multiple people in the group don't want the person that is not trying, that is precisely what vote kick is for. If it was just me and the rest of the group disagreed, then the vote kick would not go through and I would either accept the will of the group and just keep going or I would decide to leave.
It's a vote put forth that requires the agreement from a majority to go into action, unlike one person deciding that they want to not put in any effort and have everyone else pick up their slack.

Besides, as I said in the post that you selectively quoted from, I believe in communicating first and then if they respond rudely or tell you they don't care and everyone should just deal, then a vote kick may be warranted.

Above all else I believe in the good of the party over any one individual's self-focused desires. If that means sticking with a group that isn't very good but are trying and want to improve even when I know I could get a much faster and easier run with a better group, I will stay and do what I can to help. That also means not sitting idle when one person selfishly drags the group as a whole down because they just don't care.

We were put together as a group and should work together as a group for the good of the group. It is as simple as that.

[Rokke]

If we're in a sub 50 story mode dungeon, I would tell them to AoE. At this point in the game a person might not have their full rotation and/or still might be learning. Thats expected.

If we're in a dungeon over 60, they will be kicked by the 2nd room. I don't expect people to play at savage level in Xelphatol, but if tank pulls wall to wall and I'm doing my job and your job, my vote is that its back to queue for you.

[Saiah]

Its an annoying problem but not one that forms a significant problem to the success of the dungeon. I'd opt for informing the player of his inneficient gameplay. And if this causes any drama you'd have a more valid reason to opt for a votekick. In most cases the player will ignore it though.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Yes. Kick anyone you want for whatever reason you justify. That's how the system was built.

[Gemina]

I will only agree to kick toxic players. A dps not doing AoE is not a toxic player. A dps destroying everything but also condescends the group IS a toxic player. See the difference?

In casual content, I only expect players to be courteous to each other, and this does not require optimal play, only your participation. Generally speaking, so long as they're not a jerk, DC or otherwise comatose in a corner somewhere, kicking in casual content doesn't really exist for me.

[KalinOrthos]

Read the thread title and was not one bit surprised to find oit who the OP was.

[Niwashi]

If multiple people in the group don't want the person that is not trying, that is precisely what vote kick is for.

No, it's not. The vote kick feature is there to get rid of trolls who are harassing you, or players who are AFK or lost their connection to the game. It's not there to get rid of players you (or even your whole group) don't want to play with. The voting aspect is just a way to confirm that the harassment is taking place, by having multiple people corroborate that claim, since it's a hard thing for software to verify without human input.

Unfortunately, the GMs decided they didn't want to police kick abuse, so they announced that they'll never punish anyone for kicking a player even without a valid reason for it. But "you won't get punished for it" is very different than "that's what it's for". If we were discussing whether you can get away with kicking someone just for not using AoE (or otherwise not playing up to their potential), then yes, you can get away with it. It's the same way you can get away with kicking someone for wearing blue if you prefer red. That, too, would be a case where they're not playing the way you want.

Far too many players have taken the GMs' decision to allow any and all kicks without repercussions as though that meant it's what vote kick is for — to get rid of anyone they don't like. They'll corroborate claims of harassment or being AFK even when it's clear neither is true, just because it's a way to get rid of someone.

There are only four VALID reasons for initiating or agreeing to a Vote Kick, and SE points them out every time it comes up. Here they are:

• AFK
• Offline
• Harrassment
• Cheating

If something is not in that list, then it's not what vote kick is for. Sticking with just single target attack combos is not in that list.

as I said in the post that you selectively quoted from, I believe in communicating first

I apologize for the selective quoting. I actually do respect the fact that you try communicating and helping those who will accept help. Too many don't.

I quoted from you just because you stated the "don't want you in my group" reason more succinctly than many others who have expressed the same idea (some of them advocating it earlier, even without the communication attempts you try first), and it's that general sentiment I was arguing about.

and then if they respond rudely or tell you they don't care and everyone should just deal, then a vote kick may be warranted.

If they're rude enough about it that you consider it harassment, then that can be a valid reason for vote kicking someone. But the lack of AoE on its own isn't.

[Hruodig]

Should the DPS AoE in XP or story dungeons?
Should the Tank Mass Pull in XP or story dungeons?
Should the healer DPS in XP or story dungeons?

Unless every single person says yes then this is debatable and there is no one in the absolute right here in that circumstance.

I say give us the option to use squadrons or friends to xp or do story the same way fates do. Then the argument has no weight on either side.

At least then, SE will not risk losing some of the playerbase due to vitriol or getting stuck on MSQ just because of their playstyle or limitations. Leave the hard, extreme, savage for the elitist and make it party only if the belief is that all relevant content has to be party only in some unspoken rule.

Holy shit, no. I refuse to live in a world where dpses aoeing is a controversial subject. It's simple fucking math, you kill stuff faster and more efficiently when you use aoe in appropriate situations (Ie. every expert dungeon when you're not fighting a boss). That's your job as a dps-to kill things fast and efficiently. How long is this forum gonna continue to coddle and make excuses for lazy players?

[Anienai]

I only kick lalafells.

[Paladinleeds]

If we're in a dungeon over 60, they will be kicked by the 2nd room. I don't expect people to play at savage level in Xelphatol, but if tank pulls wall to wall and I'm doing my job and your job, my vote is that its back to queue for you.

Here's where I throw that claim out of the room: Jump potions. Even at 60+, they may have bought the story skip and level skip potions. As this point they're thrown in brand new, possibly their first MMO, with no idea what to do.

My stance is, I'll try and teach and guide (I take my mentor role seriously), no matter the level. Now, if they start telling me "You don't pay my sub" or worse, and become hostile, then you bet I'm initiating a vote kick. If someone isn't feeling 100% (I tend to go DPS when I can't handle the stresses of healing/tanking at that time), that's OK. New? No problem. Fatfingering like crazy because you've got a new mouse you're not used to? I feel you, been there myself. So long as you're not rude, I'm not likely to kick.