Why CNJ > WHM & THM > BLM does make sense: A canoical study.

[Wynn]

...

Actually...Ul'dah is my starting city. Which is why I know so much about THMs.

Resurrection is also not evil. Christ is believed to have been resurrected and he is the holy figure of millions. Not to mention, CNJs are raising and rebirthing people left and right so umm...yeah.

[Betelgeuzah]

Shadow is not directly linked to death.

Yes it is.

Blood is not directly linked to death.

Yes it is.

Contagion is disease, a virus, also life.

Linked to death as well.

BLM has never ever been evil.

Still doesn't matter.

Your morality has no basis here.

You keep denying basic human conceptions of Death and Evil. Only because you want to be right.

When people see these THM abilities, they know the class is darker than CNJ. Because they have preconceptions of what elements are linked to evil and dark. It's not water, it's not earth, it's not wind, it's not lightning. Blood, darkness, shadows, words like contagion. To deny that these terms aren't inherently more evil than water, wind, earth is denying common human morality.

There is nothing more relevant to say. You deny everything that is linked with evil and death, and try to shoehorn terms that aren't linked to it to prove a point. Basic elements of nature are neutral.

[Wynn]

...

Betelgeuzah: It is evil cause I say it is!

[Betelgeuzah]

It is because everyone that isn't in denial about BLM being a fitting Job for THM thinks so.

Go ask any person on the street. "Would you link blood with death or evil?" "How about shadow? Darkness? Contagion? Black Magic?"

"Oh dear mister, I only link evil with water and wind personally".

[Wynn]

It is because everyone that isn't in denial about BLM being a fitting Job for THM thinks so.

Go ask any person on the street. "Would you link blood with death or evil?" "How about shadow? Darkness? Contagion? Black Magic?"

"Oh dear mister, I only link evil with water and wind personally".

You're intentionally twisting what I'm saying in order to argue your flawed morality.

It is a good thing that men of science and reason do not have the same mind set. We might still be stuck in the middle ages.

[Tonkra]

Well but do you think F'Lhamin is happy about the creepy practices from the thm order? The thaumaturge wants to manipulate the mind of that little girl with the dark skills of thaumaturgery.
although they can be very unsafe for that little girl. he doesnt care at all.

oh damn i need to repost, because i deleted my last one ;XD lol




Ul'dah storyline.. the sitaution: The father of Ascillia died and now they want to talk the widely discussed order of Nald'Thal. to get him back into the world of the living.




L'hamin:"Have you heard of the order of Nal'thal? Their kind have practiced a dark sorcery since ancient times[..]


Intro (you can only see the text in the chatwindow, because the user hasn't recorded that)
Fyrillsunn: "Arrazaneth ossuary is the temple of that his aspect is that of death and darkness"



Mumuepo: "The man's soul belongs to Thal now, but his remains belong to the ossuary. I will...examine them further"
L'hamin: "The order bought the corpse?! to what end?!"

Mumuepo: "You neednt lose your composure.And it do you no good to speak of this to the syndicate.[...]
There is much my arts could coax from her memory. things of which she is even unaware. Should you ever wish to discover more i would be gladly"
L'hamin: "Ascillia wont be touched! The dark arts are not save when used on the young. even those outside of the order know this. i will not allow it!"


So with that in mind.. and the creepy atmosphere in the cutscenes.. the thaumaturges and the order seem more dark and creepy than before.
And you cant tell that THEIR practices to revive someone (they havent been successfull yet) is comparable with the rising of someone we know from the bible (god desided to send him back and not a dark mage) ;D (although im not religious at all and believe in that kind of stuff)
but if you want to argument with that... people should not interfere into the Death otherwise it would be called "heretic" in the mid age

their practices are DARK AND CREEPY.. or shall i underline for you the word dark in the dialogue? well i just did

SE KNOWS what they have downwritten within the story and lore!:

[SIZE="6"]Quotes[/SIZE] (for manifesting the role and lore of the THM) how the practic of thaumaturgery and the order is described (just from 3 of those cutscenes):
"a dark sorcery since ancient times"
"Arrazaneth ossuary is the temple of that his aspect is that of death and darkness
"The dark arts are not save when used on the young"

thaumaturgery is about mind manipulation, weakening enemys, draining energy out of corpses, poisoning targets, darkness spells like scourge.. that what thaumaturgery is about!! they are not caring about curing wounds in primary! like nature living conjurers (druids) do.

the backgrounds of thm's are heretical and dark. thats what the population (e.g. L'hamin) is thinking! its not that they are all in all evil! BUT their practices are debatable and DARK

and you can see in his abillities as well. regen is not just "regen" (like the whm regen we know from the series). for casting it he needs to sacrifice its own health.why do you think they did it? i can see parallels to other classes in other games like necro or something like it. Life is a kind of ressource to make it possible for him to cast that spell.
whm never need to sacrifice, because a whitemage's magic is just pure and holy.

for now.. i think everybody who wants to play a real dark blackmage they can live it up with the thaumaturge class after patch 1.20.

[Betelgeuzah]

You're intentionally twisting what I'm saying in order to argue your flawed morality.

It is a good thing that men of science and reason do not have the same mind set. We might still be stuck in the middle ages.

This is entirely cultural. It has nothing to do with science. Why should it? It's about morality, not natural science.
What am I twisting? Go and do it. Tell us your findings. This is about people's preconceptions after all, not some scientific definition of blood's purpose.

[Hartigan_Redsail]

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.


Though, I do see some logic in here though.

Because that is not where THM hang out?

[Tonkra]

Because that is not where THM hang out?

you say so? the guild of each class is the mirror of what the class is.
regarding lore and story. Thaumaturgery is often mentioned in the same sentence with "dark sorcery" "unsave" "death" for several times. (that i've posted above) all other stuff is just your own interpretation you would like it to have.

i mean what part of "sorcery" "dark" "death" "mind manipulating" the people dont get, eh?
i wouldnt say its about their personalitys itself (like the blackmage isnt evil) but they use and draw benefit from dark (black) magic. while the conjurer is taking his benefit from nature.

And if that would be false why do you think SE picked the thm to be blm? how come? its in the story, its in the lore, its in his playstyle and in his abillities. (not for 100% but thats why they want to switch some skills over to thm and backward to con) and so everyone gets his stereotype class back we had in all FF's before

end of discussion

[Wynn]

Because that is not where THM hang out?

Yes, they do.