Why CNJ > WHM & THM > BLM does make sense: A canoical study.

[Duuude007]

As a foreword, I am certain I am not the only one who is tired of hearing the arguments of why Thaumaturge being Black Mage is wrong, as well as the arguments of Conjury and White mages. People argue that a roughly translated definition of the name, or something within the game such as "who has what heals or what nukes or what buffs/debuffs".

I am constantly striving to provide effective analysis of information, and therefore felt inclined to gather, interpret, and finally detail for the community which discipline of magic truly embodies the jobs of WHM and BLM best, and why.

Any feedback is appreciated, even encouraged.

Supporting evidence that Conjurers have Canonical White Mage backgrounds

"Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings...Attuned to the essence of all things around them, the conjurers' intimacy with all forms of being enables them to shift between offensive and defensive magic as needed." --- Official site, Armory

Conjury guild located at: Stillglade Fane, Gridania; Definition of FANE: a church --- Merriam Webster

At entrance to Conjury Guild: Khuja Zhwan: "Beyond here lies Stillglade Fane. It is sacred ground, marked by the Skyserpent's Egg, the Stone cast to Eorzea from the heavens by Nophica the Matron."

T'nbulea: "Worry not. The elementals will protect us from all evils─Garlean or otherwise."

Concessa: "Please, do not sully me with your presence. The stench of the woodsin is all about you."

Commonly used Conjurer weapons: Wands & radicals blooming with life.

The symbol for Conjury: A blooming twig

Default attack: Spirit Dart

Only TP- Based moves: Radiance & Levinbolt, dealing astral-based damage. (Light and Lightning)

Supporting evidence that Thaumaturges have Canonical Black Mage backgrounds

"In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction...To then mold [sic] aether into sorcery, the thaumaturge makes use of a scepter or staff...Thaumaturges are unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War." --- Official site, Armory

Thaumaturgy guild located at: Arrzaneth Ossuary, Uld'ah; Definition of OSSUARY: a depository for the bones of the dead --- Merriam Webster

At entrance to Thaumaturgy Guild: Eleanor: "One of the thaumaturges in there once told me to come to him in my darkest hour. For a price, he'd exact whatever revenge I saw fit, he said. Tempting, no?"

Yayake: "All life culminates in the birth of death, so say we all. Greetings, and welcome to the Arrzaneth Ossuary.... Do you desire to see the other realm through the eyes of a thaumaturge? Do you wish to know the limits of this mortal coil?"

Fyrilsunn: "Arrzaneth Ossuary is the temple of Thal.
.. His aspect is that of death and darkness, that which we shall all come to know in time. Many of the poor and destitute worship here. For it is they who seek a better place in death than they knew in life."

Tutubuki: "If you would walk these halls, you must know of Nald'thal, the two aspects. It is Nald who rules over this world of the living, and Thal who keeps the realm of the dead.
.. All which lives must die, and to cross over one must be devout of mind─a true follower of Thal."

Commonly used Thaumaturge weapons: Staves & brands carved from the bones of the dead.

The symbol for Thaumaturgy: An urn, filled with flames.

Default attack: Phantom Dart

Only TP- Based moves: Damnation & Flashfreeze, dealing Umbral-based damage. (Dark and Ice)

In conclusion (and tl:dr version): CNJ = WHM and THM = BLM, because:

Descriptions: CNJ = Creation vs. THM = Destruction
Guilds: CNJ = Church vs. THM = Crypt
Deity: CNJ = Nophica, aspect of growth and abundance vs. THM = Thal, aspect of death and darkness
Role: CNJ = Protectors vs. THM = Revenge
Dislikes: CNJ = Sin vs. THM = Safety
Weapons: CNJ = Life vs. THM = Death
Normal Attack: CNJ = Spirit vs. THM = Phantom
TP Attack: CNJ = Astral vs. THM = Umbral

edit: title typo, meant to say "canonical"

[Kopuno]

I applaud you sir, but I can quickly see this turning into the next "Why didn't you post in the last 50 cnj/thm threads" and the "no way, that makes no sense.. Totally SE is stupid if they think CNJ who has the most blm spells should be whm!!" Anyways prepare for the flames but good job on looking shit up. +1

[Bowen]

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.


Though, I do see some logic in here though.

[Klive]

Great post, but do we really need another thread on this?

[Antonn]

Why Beating > Dead Horse is redundant.

[Tonkra]

Since release it was always clear to me that conjurer belongs to the light and thaumaturge more to the "dark" side.
thaumaturgs exercice practices about death and so on. they are widely discussed in Eorzea. they are a bit kind of necromancers dealing with the dead. calling the undead. to revive the undead is kind of heretical (in the way thm's guild does it)

spells like Bio, Poison, Scourge always seemed very dark to me. They sacrifice their own Lifepoints to heal other guys (whm wont ever do this), they convert MP from dead monsters.

Yes, Elemental spells are belonging to the black mage as well. but i kind of thought always...the elements are belonging to the nature and are more "nature type" than darkness spells like bio, scourge etc. are


Have you known that the conjurer in the german version is however translated into "Druid" (whyever)? he is about living alongside nature and healing arts. so for me it was ever clear to me that he is more kind of a "good" and not kind of "dark" mage (if you can say so)


would have been really strange of a thm becoming a whm. because a white mage is not about "sacrificing" something to heal somebody. etc.

[Soukyuu]

Meh, I guess it does make sense, kinda. Though I wouldn't say THM "dislike life"

I guess I was too fixed on the whole "elemental nukes = BLM" and didn't separate the class from the job. If they require you to level both THM and CNJ to get either WHM and BLM then THM>BLM makes sense

Very interesting but, why does no one take into account the other temple in Uldah. You know. . . the one that worships the other aspect of Nald'Thal the one that worships LIFE.

Because the guild our THM belong to is worshiping Thal

[Powercow]

I could actually see, for many of the classes, a sort of "exchange program" for jobs.

Conjurers would leave the woods of Gridania to visit the Milvaneth Sacrarium in Ul'dah, to learn more about life and divine powers. Using both the magic of nature and the wisdom of the Twelve, the White Mage would become a beacon of light and hope for all of Eorzea in these dark times.

Likewise, Thaumaturges would head to Gridania, witnessing the sheer power of the Elementals and wishing to harness such power for themselves. With the power of Thaumaturgy and the might of Elemental magic at their disposal, all foes shall flee in terror at the unbridled power of the Black Mage!

I dunno. It's how I always figured it. Thaumaturges did always seem like the class more willing to go to extreme lengths for power, especially if that power was really, really, REALLY needed, RIGHT NOW, like if the Empire marching on Ul'dah. Likewise Conjurers are naturally-gifted with powers, but their sheltered lifestyle could lead the Gridanian-based guild to seek out alternate sources of power -- but nothing as dark as Thaumaturgy, thus they would turn to the Sacrarium.

[Malakhim]

The way I've always interpreted White Magick has been as the work of a mage beseeching the Gods to work miracles, whereas Black Magick has been more akin to the work of a scientist; a person who has studied his or her world and has learned to manipulate the energies and elements inherent in the earth without divine intervention.

The key difference between the two to me is that one can seen as being in service of the divine(WHM) while the other is self-interested(BLM). Given the lore in FFXIV, it makes sense that Conjurers would go down the path of White Mage while Thaumaturge would don the pointy hat of the Black Mage.

[Betelgeuzah]

Now that I look at the two classes more closely, I'm pretty disappointed in myself for thinking that they would have trouble fitting the two jobs to the game. THM borrowing some elements from CNJ is the perfect Black Mage, dark, absolute, and in search for power. CNJ are the hippies and can borrow some light elements from THM for WHM to give up offense for better defense.