Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Snow_Princess]

An amusing correlation I've noticed is that the people who are quick to complain about toxic attitudes regarding having damage meters readily available, have also never touched content where that knowledge(or evaluation of performance) even matters.



Additionally, this more or less hits the nail on the head. Observation of actions is not enough to determine numbers, nor is it a good basis for assuming player skill either. No amount of watching someone will tell you how their cooldowns line up, or what procs they're getting, or if they have actions that get eaten up by server delay beyond their control. There's too many factors that can be easily circumvented by a system that people who likely won't even be effected by it, are too afraid to let the game have.

The problem with that post they are assuming 3.2k dps vs 3.4 or something. Of course you can't spot that other then both DPS are doing well (or more of the line of 4k+ off aoe in experts) However if one is doing 3.2k DPS and the other is 1.6k , an observant person can see it as clear as day. Some people attack DPS numbers as a form of troll too, I have been called out the weakest DPS that consistently does despite being a large margin over second.

I agree, DPS performance is the least visible of the three roles. A lot of the supporting points here, however, are hyperbole at best. A glance at threat meters will give a general indication of how each DPS is performing relative to the other, and when diversion is used the icon is very clear. Rotation analysis and parsing are unnecessary for this.

Yes, someone that is observant is aware of all the enmity dropping moves and takes that in consideration, along with SMN being most misleading (well in HW now, I am not sure how much is tied to the pet now) However I got to observe DPS meters via steam so i know what the feel is for different ranges, what range causes stuff to die fast, die slow, so on.

Elusive jump and lucid dreaming exist. No matter how badly anyone wants to convince themselves, threat meters are not an accurate method of gauging DPS in the slightest. Not a "general indication," not perfectly, not "somewhat," just period, it won't. If someone is single targeting during an AoE phase, and another is AoEing, the single targeter is going to have more hate on that one particular mob. It is extremely illogical to ever assert or associate DPS with your hate generation at any point.

We know, and that gets accounted for to a skilled observer. Again we might not be able tell 3.2k and 3.4 k but if you are telling me people can't observe the difference say 1.2k and 3.2 k, I do not know what to say. Big DPS gaps like that is reflected by the enmity meter along with what they do with rotations.

100% correct: threat meters don't tell us anything, and again, I've never had anyone use a threat meter to call out my terrible DPS while I was learning a DPS class in a dungeon.

No it is not, and you might be doing enough dps that is deem acceptable, so that will not be commented on. Even if it was in the unacceptable zone, it is rare to find someone to comment on it even if they know. 1. reference to parser is a ToS violation in that case and for people that know that, they can't say anything. 2. People do not comment in fear of toxic backlash, you ever read the stories about how they say something in the nicest way possible and they get stuff on the lines of "you do not pay for my sub"? People do not know you, and the blacklash for offering advice happens more then taking it well, so many deem i not worth the risk and say nothing. Going with your ability failure thread, it shows you care enough to be likely be in the acceptable DPS zone, so people will not comment.

I seen a blizzard III> fire I rotation on detlascape normal, who consistently died. Nothing short of standing around doing nothing tells people that person's dps was ultra low, and people did not comment. I seen a literally zero DPS WHM (not one assize the WHOLE thing) and no one said nothing. It is rare to see people comment on DPS, and I seen people do it before, but it is rare as heck. Last case was doing delta3.0N with a 1.2k DPS ninja, someone said that in pt.

I say every dps wants to get better because I cannot for the life of me understand the "I want to be useless and be carried" mentality so I assume most people aren't like that. I prefer to have a little faith in humanity.

Nope, most of the time you hear :
It is only xxx, it does not matter, it is not savage.

[Sylvina]

From which cereal box do you have that crazy idea? You'll find a ton of players, not only dps players, who don't give a sh.. about getting better because there are always people who'll carry them on their backs because its easier as learning to play their class even close to good.

You see dps who are not even using the game give combo and you can't tell me its not obvious that you should use the skill that gets optical highlighted from the game or just standing around and doing autoattacks.


OP: You can see if one of the dps is bad or doesn't play properly without a parser.

I say every dps wants to get better because I cannot for the life of me understand the "I want to be useless and be carried" mentality so I assume most people aren't like that. I prefer to have a little faith in humanity.

[NolLacnala]

One awful player should totally be allowed to make several others completely miserable.

Although this is what "difference in playstyle" votekicks are for

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

Although this is what "difference in playstyle" votekicks are for

A better way would be to implement PF/RF options in DF matching. "Slow and Learning" - "Quick and Loot"

[Laerune]

A better way would be to implement PF/RF options in DF matching. "Slow and Learning" - "Quick and Loot"

But most would probably still pick Quick and Loot option. If someone can finish an dungeon withing 15 minutes or 35 minutes, which option do you think they will pick? I like your idea, but I still think that majority would go for fast.

[Penthea]

No, but it will put them on a more even footing with the amount DPS get, thus encouraging more DPS players to roll a tank or healer because DPS is no longer a pressure-free role.

No it will not. Tanking and healing have more pressure than dps because their roles are support. Their first job is to maintain the safety of the party, the rest comes after. Whereas a dps's first job is to hit things. Tanking and healing requires much more group-wide responsibility, whereas dps responsibility is usually to themselves. A parser doesn't magically change the responsibility tanks and healers have.

If you cannot grasp this simple thing about the trinity of tanks, healers and dps then you have no business posting threads about how you think combat can be improved. Certainly your thread in the healer forums about cleric stance showed you know very little about healing.

Furthermore WoW has had parsing for over a decade and the dps population still far exceeds tanks and healers. Parsing does not inspire a noticeable amount of people to drop dps in favour of tanking or healing. Parsing does not take a noticeable amount of pressure off of healers and tanks. As I said before what it often does is drive players to take more risks to do more dps which actually increases the pressure on tanks and especially healers.

[Verius_Nox]

Don't forget the secret algorithm that lets bad players frequently walk away with raid drops/ the mount.

So far this expansion alone, every whistle has gone to the player who sat there dead most of the fight, and every Ala Mhigo mount has gone to the player who ate every mechanic.

So yeah, even though it's anecdotal, right now the score is 100% chance.

[VanilleFang]

I kind of know what you mean. I did a run of Kugane yesterday and it was going very slow. I don't play SAM or MCH so I couldn't tell who was screwing up their rotation, all I knew was that the PLD and I were fine. We ended up doing single pulls because big pulls were hell on my MP and were taking forever.

Checked ACT after the run and total DPS went in this order:

1. PLD
2. WHM
3. SAM
4. MCH (w/ turrets)

[RichardButte]

but telling people they shouldn't play dungeons just because they're trying to juggle a child and their gametime also super not cool.

I didn't tell them not to play dungeons.

I told them to play dungeons with friends who don't mind carrying them instead of queuing into the DF with three random strangers who didn't agree to an ultra-slow dungeon run, possibly because they were trying to get a quick dungeon run in before they have to pick their kids up from school.

[Sylvina]

So far this expansion alone, every whistle has gone to the player who sat there dead most of the fight, and every Ala Mhigo mount has gone to the player who ate every mechanic.

So yeah, even though it's anecdotal, right now the score is 100% chance.

Actually the run I got the predator from ala mhigo I was tanking and I didn't eat any mechanics. so it's not a perfect score anymore.