Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[FaileExperiment]

I'm fairly certain SE doesn't want players to be able to call out anyone for bad performance, as it might create an unwelcoming environment for players. To SE, if you finish the dungeon, that was a success! I think they want actual performance to take a backseat and not be a focus of the gameplay. Still it's easier to call out Tanks and Healers because the effects are so obvious and largely not open to interpretation. I don't think SE can change that, but I bet they would if they could.

[Mirateski]

I'm actually more forgiving of poor tanks/healers than I am of discernably bad dps, though. Probably because I remember being that bad tank/healer and how awful it was when I fucked up.

I kicked someone for not using eno (back when it was on bars) because he was "watching movies and cba", I kicked a nin who wasn't aoeing outside of frog because they were rude and mouthy and said "kick me if you don't like it", and I kicked a blm who cast nothing but... sleep, constantly. A tank that's not using cds or holding enmity I'll try much, much harder to reach before I resort to kicking.

But if it's just "wow this person has like, empty threat and has't used a single aggro dump" most of the time I just sigh and put up with the terribleness. I'm not out to make people feel like shit, but if you're being a jerk/actively detrimental about it, I guess I will.

[dragonseth07]

Why people are so OBSESSED with calling out people on less-than optimal performance?
This game's content is really forgiving. Just CHILL, man. Put some sugar over that salt.

Because this is not a single player game. If I play Skyrim, it doesn't matter how terrible I am. I am the only one impacted. But, here, bad performance affects 3, 7, or 23 other people to some degree.

And those people are trying to beat the content and move on. They didn't sign up for a 40 minute run because Johnny SMN won't use Bane.

[Raikai]

I like not having a PUBLIC dps meter... Though, I'd love to have a personal meter so I could measure my own performance.

Yes, there is that dummy trial thing to dps, but dpsing that doesn't involve movement, avoid aoe, cast your utility on someone, target swaps, etc.

[AlexionSkylark]

I am the only one impacted.

Impacted by what? 5 or 10 minutes more to complete a dungeon?
you guys really need to take a chill pill. If you are in such a hurry to get things done in this game and log out that you are willing to be a jerk to people over a couple of minutes, you really need to evaluate whether you really enjoy playing this game.

[Tanathya]

You can tell whether a DD is bad or not, the problem lies if they are and you call them out, the HUGE majority of the time, the rest of the party will ask YOU to shut up because "it doesn't matter". Those who do tell you to suck it up are the root of the problem, as if they supported you and not the slacker, the latter wouldn't be there.

[RagnellBlue]

An amusing correlation I've noticed is that the people who are quick to complain about toxic attitudes regarding having damage meters readily available, have also never touched content where that knowledge (or evaluation of performance) even matters.

"It's easy to identify bad DPS players, they're not using all of their class abilities."

Using all of your class abilities and knowing how to use them are two different stories. Anyone can press all of their buttons, anyone can do combos, it's about doing them in the proper order and applying your debuffs in proper order. That's why it's called a "rotation." I've seen plenty of people who use their entire arsenal who have garbage (read: below what is expected of the content, and only in ex/savage content) DPS. No amount of watching "rotation," is going to help you. I swear every time someone lies they can totally determine whether or not someone's DPS is low...

I've actually been "called out," for my DPS before, because my "rotation" was bad. I simply politely told the person that I cannot post my parses because it is against the rules, but that their sense of judgment was ridiculously poor and they should reevaluate themselves entirely. Their DPS was by far the lowest in the group and my DPS was even concerningly higher than the person in second. Let me make this clear. No amount of saying "pay attention to rotation and watch how they play," will suddenly make you magically determine how well their DPS is. Stop spreading this garbage.

Additionally, this more or less hits the nail on the head. Observation of actions is not enough to determine numbers, nor is it a good basis for assuming player skill either. No amount of watching someone will tell you how their cooldowns line up, or what procs they're getting, or if they have actions that get eaten up by server delay beyond their control. There's too many factors that can be easily circumvented by a system that people who likely won't even be effected by it, are too afraid to let the game have.

[dragonseth07]

Impacted by what? 5 or 10 minutes more to complete a dungeon?
you guys really need to take a chill pill.

You may not care how long content takes, but many (myself included) do. It's not unreasonable to ask for your teammates in a group setting to contribute to the team effort.

[AlexionSkylark]

It's not unreasonable to ask for your teammates in a group setting to contribute to the team effort.

Maybe in a static group context. Random DF is not made to be a high performance environment, and nobody has the right to try and enforce it upon others.
If everyone inside is on board and capable, fine. Other than that, it's par for the course.

Let's not forget that the design process behind roulettes is to create incentives so YOU go there help OTHERS. Roulettes are not about your tome grinding efficiency, never was.
If you wat maximum eficiency, put together a group of like-minded people and queue outside the matchmaking.

[Shihen]

I agree, DPS performance is the least visible of the three roles. A lot of the supporting points here, however, are hyperbole at best. A glance at threat meters will give a general indication of how each DPS is performing relative to the other, and when diversion is used the icon is very clear. Rotation analysis and parsing are unnecessary for this.