How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Laurawrzz]

I said the discussion itself is pointless, because there will be no clear answers.

Can I just say that the point of a discussion is not always to get a 'clear answer', it's a collection of opinions fashioned from personal interpretation, and exploring their differences and why it might be is the interesting part of that discussion. If you think every discussion's purpose is to get a clear answer then your understanding of it is incredibly limited.

[akaneakki]

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Making this short. Players can do their things on their level. They don't NEED to rush right. But this is what you forget, there is either 3, 7 or 23 other people in a group. Their fun matters too and 1 guy shouldn't nerf a whole group just because he wanna learn things slower. I've noticed the opposite from what you have. I've seen players getting worse and worse, because simply nobody wants to even help them out. I'm a person who loves to help people out, but so many times me and others here have tried and we fail because none of them want the help. Helping people these days often means they get offended, which is a issue as well.

I love when I help someone and they are super happy and exicted they improved a lot. I thought playing a MMO was to be part of a team, play on the same level and so on, but reading here makes me think many doesn't even understand the word teamplay.

[Hyperia]

I would do away with enrages altogether, let people take as long as they need.that will deal with a lot of the DPS issues right there. Real world battles don't have an enrage, they end due to resource exhaustion, fatigue, mistakes or being outright defeated.

[akaneakki]

I would do away with enrages altogether, let people take as long as they need.that will deal with a lot of the DPS issues right there. Real world battles don't have an enrage, they end due to resource exhaustion, fatigue, mistakes or being outright defeated.

You can take as long as you want with people with same mindset, you dont go in a group where 7 people wanna kill it, thats just flat out selfish. Yuk.

[Remedi]

But without a parser, you have no way of knowing if it's even you who should be doing research, or if it's someone else entirely...

Similarly, you can get a win and be actually doing way less than you should, having the others carry you through.

Unless I'm wrong parsers do not instantly compare you with the average of your job with your average ilvl so yes they do not tell you everything.
I'd say that the enrage itself is a hint that something is not going right, but beside that maybe using a tact that makes your dps running half-across the map is not that good to begin with or maybe not respecting the abc of casters.
Honestly with, class guides, mathed rotations, scripted boss fights, videos, parsers and fflogs the amount of infos are staggering, if ppl don't improve is probably that they honestly don't care (not to be intended in a bad way) and just want to have fun (which honestly is the major point of playing a game.
I stand by my opinion, having parser or not it won't make ppl move their fingers.

[Zaene]

Suppose, I could weigh in. I think that a major issue with the use of parsers as it pertains to the population of this game in particular is that, as has been mentioned the number doesn't mean a whole lot. It's been said before, players get their numbers padded with spears and balances, some groups have excellent synergy, for instance, when a boss is about to do some boss centered aoe, the tanks move the boss as such that a turreting caster doesn't have to stop casting. All of these things go together to form the "top 10%" of a dps' top percentile which skews the whole set of numbers.

Logically, I have to agree, albeit begrudgingly, that parsers have a place in this game. However, they are only necessary at the top of the difficulty curve. Sure it'd be nice if everyone knew their personal dps, but aside from savage raids, that number isn't essential

Finally, the biggest thing in the ENTIRE game, the way that everyone gets better is practice. As people have said in this thread, hitting a dummy only tells you if you could do enough dps to kill that dummy. Even the "easiest extreme primals eva" require you to learn the dance, and the learning can be nerve wracking as Susano electrocutes people or Lakshimi blows people up with pretty flowers, it might make you forget what skill goes after what skill in your rotation, or you may have to save some skills for jumps or abridge things, and the only way you can even learn to do that is with practice. But, the community we find ourselves in is quick to judge people even if it's their first run of the content! You can watch a video but even that doesn't prepare you.

[Laurawrzz]

Making this short. Players can do their things on their level. They don't NEED to rush right.

Sorry, I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? Are you saying that othe people shouldn't wait for someone? Could you clarify?

[HyoMinPark]

Sorry, I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? Are you saying that othe people shouldn't wait for someone? Could you clarify?

I think what akaneakki is saying, is that there are 3/7/23 other people with you when you go into any random duty, from 4-mans to 8-mans to 24-mans. I don't think they're saying not to wait for someone, but that everyone should take into consideration the 3/7/23 other people you are partied with. Just because 1 person wants to take things super slow doesn't mean the others do, and vise-versa. Just because someone else wants to speedrun everything doesn't mean the rest of the party is in agreement. Really, I think they're just saying that everyone should take into consideration the others they are grouped with, rather than act selfishly-- "I want to speedrun this instance, and I don't care what the other people in the party think or want to do"/"I just want to take things nice and slow, explore every nook and cranny, not care about DPS/hitting enrage, and I don't care if the others just want to get in and get out."

Basically, just try to be considerate, and work together with the people you are grouped with as a team. That's what I think they're saying.

[akaneakki]

Basically, just try to be considerate, and work together with the people you are grouped with as a team. That's what I think they're saying.

Pretty much.

[Laurawrzz]

Pretty much.

Ah okay, I understand now. Thanks HyoMinPark

Of course people with their own agenda is an issue, but it's always been an issue in MMOs. Despite these different progression rates we've always managed to cope in the past with this. Why is it such a problem now? People should be improving because they want to help, and be good, and achieve their own satisfaction through it in the way they want to do it, not because of some numbers on (what I think) is the most passive-aggressive website in the world, FFLogs. that site is one of the best things ever invented for MMOs, and also one of the worst.

Realistically, most players will want to be a part of the team, that is why they play an MMO, but they don't need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the world of parsing, both with and without their knowledge.

I have little else to say as I've vented all I need now, I guess my final words are yes, if you like parsing, please do it, but don't drag everyone else into it with you. All my logs are private on FFLogs and many of them get deleted. It's not my right to know about or judge other people on them. An in-game parser is the worst idea since a chocolate teapot, and so are enrage timers for making us all so preoccupied with this,