How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Penthea]

Imagine yourself in a group doing OS3. Each party member has beaten the fight's dummy, healers are doing at least some DPS, there are no deaths, but the group keeps hitting enrage. How would you "navigate" the situation without a parser?

By learning the dance. Every fight has a dance. You move in certain ways depending on placement of telegraphs and other mechanics, and you time your cds so they have maximum uptime instead of using them just before the boss disappears. The more familiar you are with the mechanics of a fight, the better your dps and hps become. A parser doesn't tell you how to dodge things or when the boss disappears. Experience does.

[Taika]

"Everyone, this was a good match, let's try our best next time! I'm sure we can do it!"

-cough-

*After 30 enrage wipes* "Let's replace the MCH! (Who was actually doing the highest DPS in the group, but they wouldn't know that would they...)

[Zeonsilt]

MCH! (Who was actually doing the highest DPS in the group, but they wouldn't know that would they...)

This is hilarious, but true.
Because i'm that MCH.

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.
p.s. Again, parsing is only "needed" in hard Savage content.

[Penthea]

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

[Remedi]

This is hilarious, but true.
Because i'm that MCH.

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.
p.s. Again, parsing is only "needed" in hard Savage content.

miunih evans on mogtalk expressed a distaste for both parse and fflogs yet he cleared savage week one so?

[HyoMinPark]

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

This isn't WoW though. Your experience in FFXIV could be entirely different. You don't really know that it would be the same as WoW. Most people here don't even advertise that they are parsing unless they're with friends or people they know. And even the few that announce to strangers that they are parsing rarely use it as a tool to harass and abuse. I have met one person that ever used a parser to abuse someone in my nearly two years playing FFXIV. My experience with them is very much on the down-low. Because so many people are so quick to jump the gun about how "parsing is bad!!!" and report people that so much as mention ACT or FFLogs, even if that person isn't actually parsing. That's the sad thing about it, and how does that make the people "parser-shaming" any better than the very few that use it to harass?

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

And, as you stated yourself, abuse can occur with or without a parser. No one can provide concrete evidence that abuse and harassment would increase if SE implemented a universal, in-game parser or DPS meter. And you shouldn't blame the tool just because people use it in the incorrect or in an abuse way. That is not the fault of the tool itself, nor does it make the tool a "bad" thing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

Not sure if you're talking about FFXIV or WoW, but ACT doesn't offer different "meters" based on which target one is hitting. It just counts your DPS as a whole, all targets included. The only time it resets is after a certain period of time passes before a new encounter is started. It won't show different DPS for, say, Halicarnassus and the adds in her fight. The DPS total shown includes her and all the adds. I don't know how WoW parsing worked, but that's how FFXIV and ACT parsing works. So that argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on with regards to FFXIV.


With regards to your comment on the top of the page, learning the dance of the fight is certainly something that helps clear it, but people can know the dance, and still not be maximizing their damage. How do they know if they are or not (aside from enrage)? This game doesn't give one any indication that the rotation they're performing is the "best it can be" or if there is more they can do to optimize it. People have said previously in this thread to just "use a guide." But the thing is...the guides that people use to optimize their rotations and DPS are formed based off of hours and hours of repeated parsing and dummy beating to get the best and squeeze out the most from each job, their rotation, and their potential damage. It's the same way stat weights are calculated as well.

Having quantifiable data helps show if you really are doing the best you can do, or if you're just skating by like an Average Joe. I'm not saying that people who don't parse are just going to be bad. That's not always the case. Some people who never parse do very well. Seeing quantifiable, numerical data on one's damage and rotation, however, is still an extremely invaluable tool. Especially if people are looking to do the very best that they can do.

[KaijinRhada]

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

My experience in WoW differs greatly from yours. I've never seen anyone berated for low DPS in my over 12 years of playing it; if anything, instance runs are quiet, and ironically outside of Mythic and LFR (which is a cesspool of a different sort), DPS hasn't been an issue that's talked about. These days especially, people that post meters to boast are often given little attention, since people just want to get in and get out ASAP. I only really noticed a downturn when LFD was introduced and any sense of server community started to disappear.

And being real here, a meter isn't going to make the difference in focusing down targets. If they were tunneling and padding with a parser, they were going to do tunnel anyway. That also applies to assholes, who will be assholes regardless.

[Penthea]

This isn't WoW though. Your experience in FFXIV could be entirely different. You don't really know that it would be the same as WoW.

If there's anything I learned from gaming for most of my life is that players are players. The game changes but the players stay the same.

There will always be noobs, exceptionally skilled players, average players, lazy players, those who only play FOTM classes and switch the second it gets a nerf, players who pose with a rare title or mount that show off the content they did, players who aren't very good but preach as if they're god's gift to gaming, players who are excellent but never feel the need to highlight it...I could go on for ages like this.

I was around in WoW before damage meters were commonly used and I can tell you the community changed significantly when parsing became common. I do not want to see the same thing happen in FF.

Not sure if you're talking about FFXIV or WoW, but ACT doesn't offer different "meters" based on which target one is hitting. It just counts your DPS as a whole, all targets included. The only time it resets is after a certain period of time passes before a new encounter is started. It won't show different DPS for, say, Halicarnassus and the adds in her fight. The DPS total shown includes her and all the adds. I don't know how WoW parsing worked, but that's how FFXIV and ACT parsing works. So that argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on with regards to FFXIV.

ACT is not a very good parser in my opinion but as far as I know some of its limited use is related to the lack of information displayed in the combat log. However if parsing became approved by SE the demand for a much more advanced one would arise as more people would see how little information ACT gives, and would deem it as an unacceptable way to grade players. Because it can't do, as you say, something as basic as showing damage done to separate entities.

WoW parsing is incredibly detailed but a lot of that is because Blizzard allow players to access every shred of combat data that happens. However this doesn't mean most players dig through it to get the real story. Most just look at the dps/hps rankings and assume whoever is on top is the best. And similarly many assume that being at the bottom means you're terrible, and don't consider things like gear or being new to the fight.

[Reynhart]

If you were kicked for "differences in playstyles," that is a valid reason for a votekick.

That last time, I was kicked for being in Sword Oath...while off tanking Scylla...

Imagine yourself in a group doing OS3. Each party member has beaten the fight's dummy, healers are doing at least some DPS, there are no deaths, but the group keeps hitting enrage. How would you "navigate" the situation without a parser?

Last time I had to do something like this, I focused target one the DPS jobI known enough to analyze, and see low uptime on some buffs. Or give enough attention to detect flaws in the rotation.

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.

I already hated it back in Coil and for the few times I tried Alexander Savage. But I guess every thread need some kind of "You don't run current Savage, so your criticism on the mentality is irrelevant"...

[Atreides]

Parsers greatly help players, everyone who is worth their salt when it comes to performance either uses a parser or has others parse them.
If you don't know your numbers you don't know whether you really improved or if the new rotation you're trying out makes a difference.
Sure we have SSS dummies now, but that alone doesnt cut it. You wanna see the numbers where it counts in the actual content.

The only excuse to be anti-parser would be playing the game laid back without any care about your own performance or straight out not wanting to bring anything to the table.
Even in normal dungeons, I'm just dumbfound by the amout of DPS who barely do half the damage as the healer.... It's not the gear either.