How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Zeonsilt]

MCH! (Who was actually doing the highest DPS in the group, but they wouldn't know that would they...)

This is hilarious, but true.
Because i'm that MCH.

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.
p.s. Again, parsing is only "needed" in hard Savage content.

[Penthea]

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

[HyoMinPark]

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

This isn't WoW though. Your experience in FFXIV could be entirely different. You don't really know that it would be the same as WoW. Most people here don't even advertise that they are parsing unless they're with friends or people they know. And even the few that announce to strangers that they are parsing rarely use it as a tool to harass and abuse. I have met one person that ever used a parser to abuse someone in my nearly two years playing FFXIV. My experience with them is very much on the down-low. Because so many people are so quick to jump the gun about how "parsing is bad!!!" and report people that so much as mention ACT or FFLogs, even if that person isn't actually parsing. That's the sad thing about it, and how does that make the people "parser-shaming" any better than the very few that use it to harass?

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

And, as you stated yourself, abuse can occur with or without a parser. No one can provide concrete evidence that abuse and harassment would increase if SE implemented a universal, in-game parser or DPS meter. And you shouldn't blame the tool just because people use it in the incorrect or in an abuse way. That is not the fault of the tool itself, nor does it make the tool a "bad" thing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

Not sure if you're talking about FFXIV or WoW, but ACT doesn't offer different "meters" based on which target one is hitting. It just counts your DPS as a whole, all targets included. The only time it resets is after a certain period of time passes before a new encounter is started. It won't show different DPS for, say, Halicarnassus and the adds in her fight. The DPS total shown includes her and all the adds. I don't know how WoW parsing worked, but that's how FFXIV and ACT parsing works. So that argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on with regards to FFXIV.


With regards to your comment on the top of the page, learning the dance of the fight is certainly something that helps clear it, but people can know the dance, and still not be maximizing their damage. How do they know if they are or not (aside from enrage)? This game doesn't give one any indication that the rotation they're performing is the "best it can be" or if there is more they can do to optimize it. People have said previously in this thread to just "use a guide." But the thing is...the guides that people use to optimize their rotations and DPS are formed based off of hours and hours of repeated parsing and dummy beating to get the best and squeeze out the most from each job, their rotation, and their potential damage. It's the same way stat weights are calculated as well.

Having quantifiable data helps show if you really are doing the best you can do, or if you're just skating by like an Average Joe. I'm not saying that people who don't parse are just going to be bad. That's not always the case. Some people who never parse do very well. Seeing quantifiable, numerical data on one's damage and rotation, however, is still an extremely invaluable tool. Especially if people are looking to do the very best that they can do.

[Penthea]

This isn't WoW though. Your experience in FFXIV could be entirely different. You don't really know that it would be the same as WoW.

If there's anything I learned from gaming for most of my life is that players are players. The game changes but the players stay the same.

There will always be noobs, exceptionally skilled players, average players, lazy players, those who only play FOTM classes and switch the second it gets a nerf, players who pose with a rare title or mount that show off the content they did, players who aren't very good but preach as if they're god's gift to gaming, players who are excellent but never feel the need to highlight it...I could go on for ages like this.

I was around in WoW before damage meters were commonly used and I can tell you the community changed significantly when parsing became common. I do not want to see the same thing happen in FF.

Not sure if you're talking about FFXIV or WoW, but ACT doesn't offer different "meters" based on which target one is hitting. It just counts your DPS as a whole, all targets included. The only time it resets is after a certain period of time passes before a new encounter is started. It won't show different DPS for, say, Halicarnassus and the adds in her fight. The DPS total shown includes her and all the adds. I don't know how WoW parsing worked, but that's how FFXIV and ACT parsing works. So that argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on with regards to FFXIV.

ACT is not a very good parser in my opinion but as far as I know some of its limited use is related to the lack of information displayed in the combat log. However if parsing became approved by SE the demand for a much more advanced one would arise as more people would see how little information ACT gives, and would deem it as an unacceptable way to grade players. Because it can't do, as you say, something as basic as showing damage done to separate entities.

WoW parsing is incredibly detailed but a lot of that is because Blizzard allow players to access every shred of combat data that happens. However this doesn't mean most players dig through it to get the real story. Most just look at the dps/hps rankings and assume whoever is on top is the best. And similarly many assume that being at the bottom means you're terrible, and don't consider things like gear or being new to the fight.

[Taika]

With regards to your comment on the top of the page, learning the dance of the fight is certainly something that helps clear it, but people can know the dance, and still not be maximizing their damage. How do they know if they are or not (aside from enrage)? This game doesn't give one any indication that the rotation they're performing is the "best it can be" or if there is more they can do to optimize it. People have said previously in this thread to just "use a guide." But the thing is...the guides that people use to optimize their rotations and DPS are formed based off of hours and hours of repeated parsing and dummy beating to get the best and squeeze out the most from each job, their rotation, and their potential damage. It's the same way stat weights are calculated as well.

Having quantifiable data helps show if you really are doing the best you can do, or if you're just skating by like an Average Joe. I'm not saying that people who don't parse are just going to be bad. That's not always the case. Some people who never parse do very well. Seeing quantifiable, numerical data on one's damage and rotation, however, is still an extremely invaluable tool. Especially if people are looking to do the very best that they can do.

This is a great point, bolded the most important parts for emphasis. If you know your rotation (can kill the dummy for a fight), know the fight and perform all the mechanics correctly, you can still do insufficient damage. In a fight with 7 other people, meeting the enrage, there's no way for you to know if it's you, someone else, or several other people who aren't performing well enough, and how far you are from the numbers you should be doing. You can ask everyone to keep pushing harder (although they already think they're doing all they can), and keep hitting your head against the enrage wall. You can try to make changes in your rotation, but again, with 7 other people, you don't know if those changes are making you succeed better or worse. You can try if changing your rotation helps you to kill the dummy faster, but that same change might actually make you do worse in the actual fight because of boss behaviour and mechanics. Information is power, and there's no way to have verified data of your and your group's performance without a parser.

I also support an official parser because of information transparency: I have witnessed people blaming others for low DPS, and even managed to kick others, when the kicked player was actually doing better than the person doing the kicking. Having an official parser would prevent those situations from happening.

[KaijinRhada]

No my parse hate comes from my time in WoW in which parsing was often used as a platform to be needlessly horrible to other people, and I have had to endure countless wipes (with randoms and with guilds) because dps were intentionally hitting the wrong target as it made them look better on meters.

I don't deny parsing is a useful tool. However like any tool it can be abused to some degree, and the potential abuse with parsing is very high. Many players use the mentor tag to appear pro even though many don't play properly, and the same thing happens with parsing.

The unfortunate truth is an enormous amount of players don't know the difference between good dps, and having dps on the correct targets. They look at a meter and assume whoever is on top must be the best.

My experience in WoW differs greatly from yours. I've never seen anyone berated for low DPS in my over 12 years of playing it; if anything, instance runs are quiet, and ironically outside of Mythic and LFR (which is a cesspool of a different sort), DPS hasn't been an issue that's talked about. These days especially, people that post meters to boast are often given little attention, since people just want to get in and get out ASAP. I only really noticed a downturn when LFD was introduced and any sense of server community started to disappear.

And being real here, a meter isn't going to make the difference in focusing down targets. If they were tunneling and padding with a parser, they were going to do tunnel anyway. That also applies to assholes, who will be assholes regardless.

[Remedi]

This is hilarious, but true.
Because i'm that MCH.

I've noticed that "parse hate" only comes from people, who actually not doing any Savage content and thus -> don't need this tool, which is normal.
p.s. Again, parsing is only "needed" in hard Savage content.

miunih evans on mogtalk expressed a distaste for both parse and fflogs yet he cleared savage week one so?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

miunih evans on mogtalk expressed a distaste for both parse and fflogs yet he cleared savage week one so?

Actually, this dislike was towards FFlogs not ACT. The former is where everyone uploads their numbers and measures e-peen/boobs whereas the parse itself just helps the individual player.

[Atreides]

Actually, this dislike was towards FFlogs not ACT. The former is where everyone uploads their numbers and measures e-peen/boobs whereas the parse itself just helps the individual player.

Yup FFLOGS can be a good thing as you can see see how well you perform compared to others, but the patted parses are not really helping and are actually are the bane of the parser community.

Or it stems from watching decent communities commence ripping themselves apart and devolving into epeen competitions where if you cannot do everything like world first raiders then "you are a piece of shit blight on the community that should just uninstall the game and you wont be allowed into any content." "Oh also that gear piece that just dropped is an upgrade for me so give it to me since you are a piece of shit blight on the community who is going to uninstall the game because I told you to or I will report you for trolling."

Which has been basically every single MMO where parsing became common. I cannot for the life of me think of a single community where parsing actually made things better, and only made things worse for everyone not a top 10% hardest difficulty raider.

Well those are just jerks, you have them without parses too. I avoid those people too because I think they are an embarrassment.

[TankHunter678]

Well those are just jerks, you have them without parses too. I avoid those people too because I think they are an embarrassment.

They also multiply and become 10x more active when they have validation and "proof" they can throw around showing them as "right" in everything they say. Which parsers become that "proof" they will throw around. And the more common the parsers are the more support they get from other people who will nod and agree with them, if only to get them to shut up because they do not think that the company will ever get around to actually banning those people. Especially when they know they are in a system where they will likely never meet that person again... such as cross-realm/cross-world/cross-data center style systems such as duty finder.