RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[aleph_null]

Well, I don't think having one class being objectively superior for progression by such a huge margin is good for game balance. It's quite similar to pld vs drk/war situation back in 3.0 where bringing pld for progression would be a big handicap for the group. Optimality isn't really a concern when the alternative is wiping and starting all over again. I don't think any sane rdm would refuse raising people to let the healers conserve their mp while learning the fight.

If you balance jobs' defensive utilities together with offensive utilities, like rdm being the "defensive" caster with easy raise and blm being the "offensive" caster with huge dps contribution (which I'm not even sure, considering embolden is quite powerful), people will just bring rdm for progression and blm for farm, and you'll end up with something similar to the tanks' situation back in 3.x (pld being taken for progression in physical dmg heavy fights like a7s or a2s, then replaced with drk for farm/speedkill). I personally don't think that's a good thing for the game, but feel free to disagree.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Eh. If they Nerf Verraise they're gonna have to buff Embolden's physical component to at the very least not deteriorate. Maybe even buff that part to 15-20! Bigger FC crits~

[PrismaticDaybreak]

snip

Any sane RDM is going to focus on learning how best to optimize their damage during progression learning where and when to CaC and Displace, what points it's important to move with DC at, when you should swiftcast instead of hardcasting Jolt 2, our role is DPS not healer bitch. Embolden, again as stated many times in this thread and others, is not that powerful, it's power is vastly overstated, it's an entire .75% more rDPS which when attributed to the RDM gives them an entire 100-150 extra DPS, and since you're so adamant people are dying, is reduced by .125% per person dead. And sure, for cutting edge progression groups like Angered RDM is absolutely mandatory, but for the other 99% of savage raiders, it is far less so, it is more than likely that having several people die means they won't see enrage, much less beat it. You're arguing RDM should be nerfed based on niche scenarios. Stop it.

[Dualgunner]

Eh. If they Nerf Verraise they're gonna have to buff Embolden's physical component to at the very least not deteriorate. Maybe even buff that part to 15-20! Bigger FC crits~

The buff I'd prefer is make it a general damage increase. Keep the dropoff, keep the range limitation, keep the numbers.

Still, I'd rather the job stay as is without any weird buffs or nerfs.

hardcasting Jolt 2

I haven't actually read up on any Red Mage theorycrafting or anything, but I tend to prioritize swiftcasting verthunder or veraero when the opportunity presents itself. What's the logic behind swifting jolt 2, since it doesn't give dualcast to go on to veraero or verthunder?

I guess I could see it as a quick and cheap way to cheese an impactful proc.

[Nezerius]

In that sense not bringing rdm for progression is a pretty big handicap for the group.

Well, I don't think having one class being objectively superior for progression by such a huge margin is good for game balance.

The way I see it, is that it's really only a handicap for groups that are going for world first progression, which is a rather small percentage of the raiding population.
It's not really much of an imbalance for groups that aren't at that high level of play.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

The buff I'd prefer is make it a general damage increase. Keep the dropoff, keep the range limitation, keep the numbers.

Still, I'd rather the job stay as is without any weird buffs or nerfs.



I haven't actually read up on any Red Mage theorycrafting or anything, but I tend to prioritize swiftcasting verthunder or veraero when the opportunity presents itself. What's the logic behind swifting jolt 2, since it doesn't give dualcast to go on to veraero or verthunder?

I guess I could see it as a quick and cheap way to cheese an impactful proc.

My writing wasn't clear, more as in swiftcasting in general versus hardcasting in general, jolt 2 being the usual go to spell. Although the more I do savage the more I'm questioning the precast Vt/a opener since you only have a 50% chance of getting 2 270 procs as opposed to 100% with a jolt 2 opener.

[Dualgunner]

Although the more I do savage the more I'm questioning the precast Vt/a opener since you only have a 50% chance of getting 2 270 procs as opposed to 100% with a jolt 2 opener.

While you get more procs I (without fully mathing it out) think you get less potency per second.

From precast you get 600 potency in the first two gcds, 720 from double weaving contafleche, and 270 from the one guaranteed proc. So the opening 3 gcds give you ~1590 potency unless I'm overlooking something. From the 300 pot spells you get 11 mana from each, and then 9 mana from the guaranteed proc for 20/11.

From j2 you have 530 in 2 gcds, 720 from contrafleche, then 270 on the third gcd of your choice, for 1520 potency (based on an assumption j2 is 230 on memory alone). You end up with 3/3 from j2, 14/3 from second gcd, and 23/3 or 18/7 on the next cast.

[Kabooa]

The way I see it, is that it's really only a handicap for groups that are going for world first progression, which is a rather small percentage of the raiding population.
It's not really much of an imbalance for groups that aren't at that high level of play.

What happens at the top bleeds to the bottom.

That's kind of just what happens. People emulate the top teams because what they've done has worked. It doesn't matter if you don't 'need' it, it matters that the people writing your guides deemed they needed it at the time.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

snip

I figure the measure of potency loss depends somewhat on RNG, Impact making up for 30 of the inital 60 loss, provided you wouldn't have procced the second "Ready" status on the other Vt/a, but since it is somewhat RNG dependent it's hard to math out. I agree you'd be behind on mana though.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

What happens at the top bleeds to the bottom.

That's kind of just what happens. People emulate the top teams because what they've done has worked. It doesn't matter if you don't 'need' it, it matters that the people writing your guys deemed they needed it at the time.

Then the issue isn't with RDM it's with people that need to think outside the top tier meta box because that's not the speed they're at.