I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

[CaZx]

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but what about some sort of compromise?

What about a system where there was a weekly cap in place until you completely geared one job? Then after that the cap was lifted?

It seems like it would be a nice balance between people bum rushing content to completion and still allowing people to gear multiple jobs (without literal months on top of months worth of gates).

Again, sorry if its been suggested already.

[Skivvy]

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but what about some sort of compromise?

What about a system where there was a weekly cap in place until you completely geared one job? Then after that the cap was lifted?

It seems like it would be a nice balance between people bum rushing content to completion and still allowing people to gear multiple jobs (without literal months on top of months worth of gates).

Again, sorry if its been suggested already.

Another idea, which is constantly mentioned, would be to make the tomes cap per job. More flexibility while still artificially stretching out content.

[TankHunter678]

Another idea, which is constantly mentioned, would be to make the tomes cap per job. More flexibility while still artificially stretching out content.

In other words lets track 45 currencies (15x poetic tomes tracked, 15x verity tomestones tracked, 15x creation tomestones tracked), or if you go by role then that's 21 tomestone currencies to track. Giving you 15 (or 7) weekly limits you feel you need to cap meaning people would be required to daily run a minimum of about 3-4 hours worth of expert dungeons every day just to cap out weekly in the case of it being role based.

Which will lead to much faster burn out because you would have to no life grind essentially. If it was even worse and split the tomestone reward so that you got some of each then well in all honesty that just amplifies the grind even more and worsens content burn out.

[Skivvy]

In other words lets track 45 currencies (15x poetic tomes tracked, 15x verity tomestones tracked, 15x creation tomestones tracked), or if you go by role then that's 21 tomestone currencies to track. Giving you 15 (or 7) weekly limits you feel you need to cap meaning people would be required to daily run a minimum of about 3-4 hours worth of expert dungeons every day just to cap out weekly in the case of it being role based.

Which will lead to much faster burn out because you would have to no life grind essentially. If it was even worse and split the tomestone reward so that you got some of each then well in all honesty that just amplifies the grind even more and worsens content burn out.

No, this would give some flexibility to those who want the cap gone entirely. Geezus, people. If you're the type of person that feels pressured by having more options, that is entirely on you and something you need to work on. And stop using outliers as if they're the norm. Most people do not have 15 jobs leveled. If judging by these forums, most people are also completely content with gearing slowly and so this burn out you keep talking about shouldn't be an issue.

[AxlStream]

No, this would give some flexibility to those who want the cap gone entirely. Geezus, people. If you're the type of person that feels pressured by having more options, that is entirely on you and something you need to work on. And stop using outliers as if they're the norm. Most people do not have 15 jobs leveled. If judging by these forums, most people are also completely content with gearing slowly and so this burn out you keep talking about shouldn't be an issue.

Then you'd get people who play just 1 job complaining about people effectively having more total tomes and want that restriction removed entirely. I know it's a slippery slope kkind of arguement but this community is extremely prone to it considering many stances on expected performance, content difficulty and other issues. There is absolutely no way to make everyone happy and most seem to make due with the current system while it keeps content somewhat engaging for a minor ammount of time.

[TankHunter678]

No, this would give some flexibility to those who want the cap gone entirely. Geezus, people. If you're the type of person that feels pressured by having more options, that is entirely on you and something you need to work on. And stop using outliers as if they're the norm. Most people do not have 15 jobs leveled. If judging by these forums, most people are also completely content with gearing slowly and so this burn out you keep talking about shouldn't be an issue.

Eh based on what I see all the time in DF? There are more people with all jobs leveled (to some degree) then there are people with only a couple jobs leveled.

And it does lead to much faster burn out, I experienced it in other, korean, MMOs where you basically have to constantly grind to progress.

[Snow_Princess]

Eh based on what I see all the time in DF? There are more people with all jobs leveled (to some degree) then there are people with only a couple jobs leveled.And it does lead to much faster burn out, I experienced it in other, korean, MMOs where you basically have to constantly grind to progress.

You need a game to limit you so you do not get burned out? Why does a game development team need to micromanage people? They can at least do the gated currency by ROLE (not job) so healer (whm/SCH/AST) , tank (DRK, WAR, PLD) Melee (maiming) DRG, Melee (striking) MNK,SAM, scouting - NIN, RNG(BRD,MCH) and caster, (BLM,SMN, RDM) though they would need to balance secondary stats better for this to work, like how spell speed is not really wanted by RDM, have it effect other things. You do not need to cap every role per week, and no reason people should feel they have to, it is just options so people do not feel locked in one job, something this game advertises play all jobs on one character.

PS I had to cut your quote up do to text limits.

its fine

And you get massively more inventory space for each role to boot. There's really scarcely any other way to go, so long as you can stand doing the MSQ again (and gleaning its burgeoning exp gains...).

But XIV was in large part sold on the idea of "all classes on one character"... and yet they're less alt-friendly in that form than almost any competing MMO. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

UGH now i am considering buying 2 MSQ potions but it is limit 1 per account, it would be nice to have different characters per role for the pointless gating and inventory space, be a good way for them get more money that is for sure..

[Skivvy]

Eh based on what I see all the time in DF? There are more people with all jobs leveled (to some degree) then there are people with only a couple jobs leveled.

And it does lead to much faster burn out, I experienced it in other, korean, MMOs where you basically have to constantly grind to progress.

It's normal to have all jobs leveled to a degree. I have all jobs leveled to a degree. What I want to see are all these poor souls that you are worried about that have all 15 jobs maxed out and are simultaneously trying to gear them all. That is what your previous comment was alluding to as a reason why tome cap per job would be bad. Yes, I know those people are spotted around the server - I ran into one of them while running an expert once, however they are insanely far from the norm.

Also, burn-out is obviously a very real thing, but these leads back to your own self-control. Just because you personally suffer with burnout does not mean others will suffer the same. I've played XI, as well as my favorite Korean MMO that I hate to love (AA) for years, I understand grind. You need to know how you react to grind and play accordingly. It's unfortunate that SE feels they have to resort to the level of hand-holding presented in this game.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, this would give some flexibility to those who want the cap gone entirely. Geezus, people. If you're the type of person that feels pressured by having more options, that is entirely on you and something you need to work on. And stop using outliers as if they're the norm. Most people do not have 15 jobs leveled. If judging by these forums, most people are also completely content with gearing slowly and so this burn out you keep talking about shouldn't be an issue.

They aren't outliners though. Every single time the devs have released content where you could indefinitely farm it, people always gravitated to the easiest and most efficient they could find. As I mentioned earlier, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't in Verity gear on their preferred jobs by the time Omega dropped. Likewise, the Anima farm was supposed to push people to casually grind their relics. What did most do instead? Spam A1S incessantly because it was fast and easy. Aether PF had an abundance of light farm parties practically all day.

Savage didn't release for four weeks, meaning raiders had plenty of time while waiting for it. If you wanted full Creation gear, it would require just 214 tomes per day over that four week span. Doing your roulettes daily offers 125. So two... just two Ala Mhigo runs extra per day and you'd have full ilvl 330 in four weeks. That is not a hardcore grind. People spend more time farming mounts than what it would require for them to have the highest level gear available. This does not include, Hunts, Lost Canals or PvP. Even casual play would make it incredibly easy and far more beneficial to obtain all Creation gear, thus rendering every other avenue for gear progression obsolete. You keep presuming only "no lifers" would grind like that, but 214 tomes per day requires less than one hour' slightly longer if you go the dungeon route and maybe get some bad groups. That is all you would have to dedicate to your grind.

Why do people care if gating was removed, or at least adapted to their "Play all jobs" design?

For people afraid that it would mean higher ilvl requirements, you will always be free to create parties yourself asking for lower ilv requirements.

For those who think it would tire players who would end up quitting, guess what? That's exactly what's already happening when you are always playing the same job cause you cannot gear your alts properly.

And no, there is not enough end game content as it is. I still have hope that they will be able to bring some new end game things in this expansion by removing one dungeon every two patches, but I have little faith it will be meaningful content.

The fact is the game is stuck between its play every job on one character core design and its game design decisions to heavily limit it.

Because it renders more than half the content released worthless? It actually wouldn't impact me nearly as much as non-raiders. Why? I do Savage, thus my progression will remain untouched. Casual players, on the other hand, will find queues increasingly longer as less and less people bother with content that offers them literally nothing. The 24 man raid would be dead on arrival since not a single piece of gear is better than what you could already have farmed.

As for people unsubbing. This assumption is false. All censuses made public, official or unofficial, only showed a decline in players during the much maligned Gordias era. Those numbers increased with Creation as did the clear rates. Furthermore, the job mentality is community enforced as vast majority of statics recruit based on roles. If I join as a healer, the group wouldn't be pleased if I abruptly said I wanted to play Samurai this week. If you're pugging, you can join a PF with whatever gear you have and most won't care provided you know what you're doing. Want to play Samurai this week instead of healer? Look for a PF with an open DPS slot.

[Snow_Princess]

Why do people care if gating was removed, or at least adapted to their "Play all jobs" design?For people afraid that it would mean higher ilvl requirements, you will always be free to create parties yourself asking for lower ilv requirements.

For those who think it would tire players who would end up quitting, guess what? That's exactly what's already happening when you are always playing the same job cause you cannot gear your alts properly.

And no, there is not enough end game content as it is. I still have hope that they will be able to bring some new end game things in this expansion by removing one dungeon every two patches, but I have little faith it will be meaningful content.

The fact is the game is stuck between its play every job on one character core design and its game design decisions to heavily limit it.

Yeah exactly, they depend on this gating to be content for 4 years.. time for something different? reskining patch after patch im sure people get tired of it....

They aren't outliners though. Every single time the devs have released content where you could indefinitely farm it, people always gravitated to the easiest and most efficient they could find. As I mentioned earlier, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't in Verity gear on their preferred jobs by the time Omega dropped. Likewise, the Anima farm was supposed to push people to casually grind their relics. What did most do instead? Spam A1S incessantly because it was fast and easy. Aether PF had an abundance of light farm parties practically all day.

Savage didn't release for four weeks, meaning raiders had plenty of time while waiting for it. If you wanted full Creation gear, it would require just 214 tomes per day over that four week span. Doing your roulettes daily offers 125. So two... just two Ala Mhigo runs extra per day and you'd have full ilvl 330 in four weeks. That is not a hardcore grind. People spend more time farming mounts than what it would require for them to have the highest level gear available. This does not include, Hunts, Lost Canals or PvP. Even casual play would make it incredibly easy and far more beneficial to obtain all Creation gear, thus rendering every other avenue for gear progression obsolete. You keep presuming only "no lifers" would grind like that, but 214 tomes per day requires less than one hour' slightly longer if you go the dungeon route and maybe get some bad groups. That is all you would have to dedicate to your grind.

it was 2 weeks, not 4, when salvage opened compared to normal. You couldn't even get a body from normal when salvage opened. Why does it matter if people had full Verity on 1 job by the time delta normal opened? me and my friend where on 3 jobs with it, and we did not do expert every day. Why is it such an issue to let the game live up to what it advertises? this isn't "can only play 1 job, or 1 role and you need 2 alts to play properly" I do not find this post making a connection on why people should be allowed to gear more then one job on the current tomes. Also you pretty much had to make Verity not gated, otherwise it would not make sense to have 300 gear rain on you with 310 gated.

The only thing you achieve with uncapped tomes is
1) faster ilvl inflation,
2) the gearing process would be even more brainless and doable with less effort (no one would overmeld and craft gear for that extra edge on dps in early clear groups)
3) unstable participation in contents with higher spikes and bigger gaps in between them. Bad for a subscription model game.
If tomes were uncapped there would be other gates in place, most likely rng based ones, which also leads to "only 1-3 jobs high geared" usually and also provide stable participation.

Those are design flaws making the current tome gear too strong/ content too easy. That was always another issue and not really meant for this topic, I just think it is counterproductive that this game is all jobs on one character when that is not really the truth and tries to force one job on people. Also your 1 does not take account the suggested of resisting caps per role, not per character.

Come to think of it, I guess my point is I am tried of gating covering up the game's design flaws, that is why it works so well, because they can't build the game from the concept of letting you play and gear any job yet, and does not offer enough content to support it (or least that fear that?)