Tenacity proven better? (BiS for tanks?) Gear Stat Calc

[Matholwch]

A theory-crafting spreadsheet was posted on Reddit and I was fiddling with numbers. I’ve been an advocate of Tenacity for a couple weeks now, and this is reading as it might be the actual way to go at i340. The issue with most tanks is they just take what they read in Reddit and they don’t do the math themselves, so I’m checking numbers and would like a little feedback on this.

Gear Stat Calculator - Link

What I used for BiS in DH w/melds - Link

What I used for BiS in Tenacity w/melds - Link

So I did BiS (i340) gear for DH (including Pork Kakuni) with second stat being Tenacity, took those numbers and plugged them into the calculator, then I took BiS (i339) for Tenacity (including Pork Stew) with second stat being DH. For the record, I input all stats into this calculator. STR/DH/CH/Det/SkS/Vit. The calculator shows that the damage is as close to identical as you can get, .249% difference in favor of Tenacity. The Tenacity build w/food comes to 2165 Tenacity vs DH build w/food coming to 1801 Tenacity. So the Tenacity build comes to roughly 10.8% mitigation and bonus to heals, were as the DH build comes to 9% mitigation and bonus to heals.

Tenacity build w/food gives the extra 1.8% mitigation/bonus heals and .249% extra in damage. Differences seem negligible, but Tenacity does seem the best way to build as of now and most likely in the future as well.

Side question:
Will the extra tenacity be doubled for things like Adlo from a SCH? The extra 1.8% in the heal, and get that translated to a bigger shield, 1.8%? Effectively, a 3.6% improvement?

[Shinkyo]

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I did a similar comparison and where the spreadsheet falls short is that it doesn't value SkS at all currently.
Another thing to consider is that if you stack DH, you can't have the full benefit of the food buff because you can't reach high enough value to cap the 5% buff at 85 stats point.
Stacking crit is also not a good option because you can't max your food buff either (while avoiding Tenacity) and can't get near the 3500 DH+Crit threshold where Crit become more valuable that DH.

Personally, I've converted the SkS difference into Tenacity (slightly buffed because SkS>Tenacity) and it puts the DH build at 1% higher than the Tenacity one.
I'll gladly trade that 1% dps increase for 5.5% mitigation but that's a personal opinion.

[Matholwch]

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With me running in PUGs mostly, I'm finding a lot of scrub healers, so I'm enjoying the comfort of the mitigation and bigger heals. Have any numbers been posted about heals received increasing at the same rate as mitigation, or could they potentially be higher or lower still?

[Shinkyo]

With me running in PUGs mostly, I'm finding a lot of scrub healers, so I'm enjoying the comfort of the mitigation and bigger heals. Have any numbers been posted about heals received increasing at the same rate as mitigation, or could they potentially be higher or lower still?

The effect of Tenacity on heals are unclear to me.
I've seen people saying that Tenacity increased self heals only (the tooltip says so as well) and not healing received from healers. However, I've personally tested heals from IB and Soul Eater with/without tenacity and it did not make any different in damage % absorbed as heals.
I don't really know what to make of it...

[Dizzy_Derp]

Tenacity build w/food gives the extra 1.8% mitigation/bonus heals and .249% extra in damage. Differences seem negligible, but Tenacity does seem the best way to build as of now and most likely in the future as well.

any mitigation or increase to received healing is irrelevant. That will never matter outside of day one prog for the same reason ppl went about equipping the i270 str accessories, hp passive mitigation and increases healing are all useless when you mitigate properly with cooldowns. the game isnt designed with passive mitigation in mind. It's all about big busters that you CD and fluff in between that hits like a wet noodle. When is comes to a secondary like ten it's only value is for damage and picking the stat with less damage potential is the incorrect choice. Also you bis lists are wrong, you need full crafted accessories.

[Shinkyo]

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Things don't have to be that binary.
Slightly less dps for slightly more mitigation isn't wrong. It's a trade off that's acceptable for some people and not for others.

Current dps checks aren't tight to the point that 1% of tank dps is going to matter, just like 5% mitigation isn't going to help you survive a TB.

Whether you prioritize DH or Tenacity, both options are good in their own reason. The only thing that matter is that people make informed decision based on their priority.

[Matholwch]

Changing to crafted penta melds give the edge to DH by only .73% in damage, but now your mitigation difference is 2.5%. I also respectfully disagree that passive mitigation is only used on day 1 progression. Unless you're in a top static who's already got o1-o4 savage on farm, the extra mitigation helps in every hit you take. So it helps anyone who doesn't have o4 cleared, or on farm. PUG'ing content means you don't get the same people every single time you run a dungeon, so it's helpful to know that you're able to help a healer out more. If throughout the fight you can require 1 less regen, or 1 less casted heal, that's more DPS the healers can be putting out. Spell for Skill, a WHM Stone IV will hit harder than a non crit/DH damage from a base weapon swing.

To say the extra mitigation isn't needed at all, ever, is pretty elitist and ignores where the +99% of the tanks are currently. Basically any tank that doesn't have o4s on farm.

BiS links I used to find the .73% in damage benefit for DH with crafted penta melds. Also notes the 513 Tenacity difference which is where I got the percentage mitigation difference.

Link DH/penta
Link Tenacity/penta

[Dizzy_Derp]

To say the extra mitigation isn't needed at all, ever, is pretty elitist and ignores where the +99% of the tanks are currently. Basically any tank that doesn't have o4s on farm.

There is nothing elitist about it at all. You don't need the mitigation now or ever and when you clear o4s it's not going to change that at all. You act like there's a magic barrier you break when it's clears that says "Hey you cleared and I gift you with the ability to no longer need mitigation to survive what you needed it for before this clear" doesn't work like that. You need a cooldown for x buster now your going to need it for the same buster at bis. Your extra mitigation is pointless now and after clearing o4s because the busters dont magically change potencies. Again this game isn't about passive mitigation, it's about how you use the cooldown you have at your disposal and how much damage you can do.

[Kabooa]

There is nothing elitist about it at all. You don't need the mitigation now or ever and when you clear o4s it's not going to change that at all..

By this logic you will never need that +1% damage from prioritizing Direct Hit either. It's not only insignificant on a personal level but even less so on a raid scale.

[Ogulbuk]

By this logic you will never need that +1% damage from prioritizing Direct Hit either. It's not only insignificant on a personal level but even less so on a raid scale.

Was about to say this.

Also: less damage taken may translate in at less babysitting and the healer having more chances to dps, so sturdier tank can still translate into more damage.