SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[Ksenia]

Yeah for 2.0 my retainers were on full time farm for Deepeye Tears and Chimera Hair and the leathers. With x4 battle retainers, I could get 40 items an hour.

Deepeye are still a curse, even when you can one shot them and rotate through them at full tilt. Sure you get the odd 3 stack but you get the runs of 8 or 9 that don't give any, far more. Like I said in another thread, give me some gear, some food, anything to boost drop rates.

[QT_Melon]

Nonsense. As I posted, two hunting retainers are enough - I have three, and they bring in mats faster than I use them. And everyone gets two for free.

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time. Yoshi again stated he doesn't want players to feel like they have to stay on all the time. He wants them to stay subscribed, since this is by the month, not the hour (in terms of paying for playtime).

Fairness, in a video game? Are you kidding?

Business > "fairness"
If it affects players in a way that harms business that gonna be something he needs feedback on.

Isn't for Leatherworkers, the topic of this thread, since they are Weaver mats.

Says the guy "awash in manes" ... Now you want to try playing that. Please. As I said that's why I said it needed it's own separate thread, but as far as LTW go I already said it's pretty much fine. These arguments about the mane is to counter a point YOU bragged about.

The thing is this is a lower tier mat than Twincoon, this is just like before where LTW was complaining about GATED items like the Corthean Tea Leaves. The devs then let the Sundries vendor in Foundation sell some of those mats. So yeah they do listen to feedback.

So: Please forward to whatever the iL320 DoH/DoL gear requires being even harder to get.
Yoshida-san understands that top-end crafting should be a challenge, just like top-end raiding, and that includes getting the mats for it.

So what, it has nothing to do with leveling gear. If you're gonna make an argument at least stay consistent to the point. Asking for a vendor happened BEFORE, not so wrong to ask for it again. Not talking about the level of difficulty for future mats, people are welcoming the challenge. They are just asking for a bit of relief on a bottlenecked mat that is not only used as a base craft ie the mane itself, but also the thread and cloth.

[Silverbane]

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time.

How do you know that? I often log on, cycle my retainers, and log off. Takes maybe three minutes.

Says the guy "awash in manes" ... Now you want to try playing that.

The exact quote is "I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs."

Tsk tsk tsk. That's dishonest quoting on your part, you didn't even include an ellipsis. I've seen lawyers try that trick in their briefs, pretending something or someone said something other than what was really said, in an effort to win an argument. It doesn't fool the court, the law clerks always check. All it accomplishes is damaging of the lawyer's credibility.

Not surprisingly, the same thing can happen when a person quotes dishonestly on an internet forum, where everyone's a judge.

[QT_Melon]

How do you know that? I often log on, cycle my retainers, and log off. Takes maybe three minutes.

Still more time spent than others on average can. Until they develop an API for that...

The exact quote is "I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs."

Tsk tsk tsk. That's dishonest quoting on your part, you didn't even include an ellipsis. I've seen lawyers try that trick in their briefs, pretending something or someone said something other than what was really said, in an effort to win an argument. It doesn't fool the court, the law clerks always check. All it accomplishes is damaging of the lawyer's credibility.

Not surprisingly, the same thing can happen when a person quotes dishonestly on an internet forum, where everyone's a judge.

A partial quote is that is not out of context of what you are saying is in no way dishonest. Nice try. Get back to the point.

The point is, that they have offered a remedy in the past for mats if they are problematic.

[Elamys]

Silverbane, are you really just this ignorant? You have three battle retainers - great - that's still paying for one extra retainer, and then that locks them out of the possibility of having other kinds of retainers (btn/min/fsh). No other item in the game has the solution of "make your retainers gather it all" for the best strategy of gathering it. I'm constantly sending my retainers out too. But the retainers are supposed to be a side benefit, a little bit extra, not your sole source because the drop rate is so terrible.

[Silverbane]

Silverbane, are you really just this ignorant?

Leading with a personal attack. What do you think that accomplishes? Do you think it helps you win the argument? Do you think it makes me sad, because you think I care about the opinion what some internet stranger who has no clue who I am? LOL. No, not a bit.

You have three battle retainers - great - that's still paying for one extra retainer

My argument is that since three battle retainers keep me awash in more mats than I can use, two is enough. Can you prove otherwise?

and then that locks them out of the possibility of having other kinds of retainers (btn/min/fsh)

A minor inconvenience. Anything such retainers might gather, I can quickly and easily gather myself. It's not like hides and other beast-part drops.

But the retainers are supposed to be a side benefit, a little bit extra, not your sole source because the drop rate is so terrible.

Then why have they served that function (getting difficult beast-part drops) ever since 2.0?

What's your source of knowledge that justifies your claim about what retainers are "supposed" to be? Or are you just making things up to suit your conclusion?

[Silverbane]

A partial quote is that is not out of context of what you are saying is in no way dishonest.

Sure it is. You were criticizing me for being off topic because I said "awash in manes" and the thread is about Leatherworkers, but in fact I wrote (led with even) skins, not manes, and skins are directly relevant to Leatherworkers. So your criticism was dishonest, and supported by a dishonest quote.

Even if you don't understand that it's a dishonest tactic (and to support an invalid ad-hominem as well, in this case, a double fault) I think most of the readers here will. And that's what important: just like in court, the goal of an argument is to convince members of the "jury," not your opponent.

Of course, the only jury that really matters is the developers. And they don't seem to agree with you.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Still more time spent than others on average can.

Gotta put in above the average work level if you want to achieve above the average result. Do not need an API for that - you just need to accept that you cannot get the maximum result with the minimum of effort.

Are the manes/hairs an annoying problem, especially if you intend to go hunting for them yourself? Yup. Don't think anyone's denying that anywhere in this thread. The solutions, for whatever reason, seem to be anathema to you, on the basis that "its not fair because not everyone can do those". Well, maybe not, but most can, they merely choose not to, for one reason or another in their personal lives. Nothing wrong with that at all - but bear in mind, again, that you do not get maximum results with minimum effort.

[QT_Melon]

Nothing wrong with that at all - but bear in mind, again, that you do not get maximum results with minimum effort.

Sorry but sending out a retainer is not "maximum effort"

What is with the strawman logic here? Was there EVER an argument about asking for "Maximum results"? A possibility of having a vendor similar to HW is maximum results now"?

Sure it is. You were criticizing me for being off topic because I said "awash in manes" and the thread is about Leatherworkers, but in fact I wrote (led with even) skins, not manes, and skins are directly relevant to Leatherworkers.

So 2/3 of your reply was off topic which now equals "none of it?" No sorry, try again. You decided to intentionally include those in your reply.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It is dumb to not plan ahead, and dumb to not realize you can "borrow" mats from the marketboard.
Yet you seem to think these two options aren't available.

Price fluctuation is a thing you know. You're not guaranteed to sell those mats at the same price you paid. In fact, it's less likely once you account for taxes. Furthermore, planning ahead only works if you've set aside a specific period to craft. A lot of people decide to do it on the fly. Regardless, you're still arguing a strawman. My post was a direct response to your accusation buffing drop rates somehow "dumbs down" crafting. And you've dodged it every single reply thereafter.

Since you're so much smarter. It should be a simple answer, non?

Leading with a personal attack. What do you think that accomplishes? Do you think it helps you win the argument? Do you think it makes me sad, because you think I care about the opinion what some internet stranger who has no clue who I am? LOL. No, not a bit.

Perhaps the same as passive aggressive personal attacks? I find rather amusing you take offense to someone supposedly taking a jab at you but have no qualms doing it yourself.