SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[Silverbane]

Your post implied a reduction in mat component would somehow equate to dumbing down crafting. Planning ahead doesn't change the two methods for getting mats have nothing to do with crafting, thus a reduction wouldn't be "dumbing it down." You'd simply be less dependent on your retainer or farming.

Nice try though.

Don't blame me, you're the one that brought up the issue of time-to-get-mats, by posting:

Because going out and killing monsters or waiting hours on retainers requires so much thought? The dumbed down rebuttal doesn't work in this scenario ...

It is dumb to not plan ahead, and dumb to not realize you can "borrow" mats from the marketboard.
Yet you seem to think these two options aren't available.

[QT_Melon]

Don't blame me, you're the one that brought up the issue of time-to-get-mats, by posting:



It is dumb to not plan ahead, and dumb to not realize you can "borrow" mats from the marketboard.
Yet you seem to think these two options aren't available.

1. Not everyone has more than 2 retainers, please stop ignoring that point because it does make a difference.
2. "Borrow" is beyond operative due to market fluctuation and how many one can afford to buy at a time.

[Silverbane]

1. Not everyone has more than 2 retainers, please stop ignoring that point because it does make a difference.
2. "Borrow" is beyond operative due to market fluctuation and how many one can afford to buy at a time.

1) Everyone has two, and if your concern is Leatherworker, they can both be hunters. And that's enough. I have three hunters, and they keep me well stocked in fleece, furs, hides, and meat.

2) It's always a handicap to not have gil, but anyone who made it to L70 without accumulating gil has only themselves to blame.

[Solarra]

The drop rate is horrible. In my experience, my retainers can get more in an hour than I can (admittedly I gave up farming mobs fairly quickly due to the low return). That's giving a huge advantage to those who have paid retainers, or those of us who can log in several times a day to send our retainers out. A buff would be most welcome.

[QT_Melon]

The drop rate is horrible. In my experience, my retainers can get more in an hour than I can (admittedly I gave up farming mobs fairly quickly due to the low return. That's giving a huge advantage to those who have paid retainers, or those of us who can log in several times a day to send our retainers out. A buff would be most welcome.

I'm waiting for the other poster to come back and somehow make it your fault that you don't play the game enough. Seriously though, some people forget that not everyone can spend vast amount of time on the game so what seems like a "simple" solution is not so because others can only play a certain amount of time.

[Silverbane]

Seriously though, some people forget that not everyone can spend vast amount of time on the game so what seems like a "simple" solution is not so because others can only play a certain amount of time.

People who don't spend much time on FFXIV (or any MMO) won't be competitive with those who do.
That's fundamental element of RPG design, and FFXIV is a MMO RPG.

So if you want a game where the people who play an hour a day can do everything the people who live the game do, and just as well, look for another genre. This game isn't and shouldn't be like that. If it were, if the game were dumbed down that much, the people who spend 15+ hours a week on the game would get bored by the lack of challenge and go elsewhere ... and that's already a bit of a problem.

[QT_Melon]

Yup, right on schedule. Predictable argument too. It's a shame really. I thought they'd have something outside the usual platitude and "talking points".

Especially since Yoshi P stated he wanted to make this easier for people to not have to stress and log in every day.

[Silverbane]

Yup, right on schedule. Predictable argument too. It's a shame really. I thought they'd have something outside the usual platitude and "talking points".

Ah, a logic-free personal attack. Tsk tsk tsk.

Public Service Announcement:
Personal vendettas and ad-hominem arguments aren't looked on kindly by the forum administrators.
The ban hammer drops a lot more readily than some people think, if Reddit FFXIV posters are to be believed.

So if a person finds that they can't make a post without attacking or harassing another forum participants, perhaps that person should choose not to post, before Square makes that choice for them.

And remember, a person can edit their posts later if they got carried away in by the heat of the moment. If a person is fast enough, they might be able to erase their faux pas before someone hits the "report" button down there at the bottom left of their post.

Not this time, though.

[QT_Melon]

Not at all. There is no personal attack, just that the responses are predictable.

Most, if not all your replies read from the same scripts and platitudes people tend to jump to instead of going back and reading Yoshi's interviews and therefore applying the logic of the direction he's taking. He wants the feedback, as long as you don't make personal attacks at the devs, he welcomes it. He's stated he doesn't want players to feel overwhelmed and constantly trying to play catch up.

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void. No one is going to buy retainers if they stop playing. This is not what Yoshi wants, he wants subscriptions over retainers. Retainers are a cost for the maintenance on space, meaning they are paying back into the resource they're given.


So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic is from the fact that one type of mob drops these. This is unlike a lot of the skins, where for example Tiger skin drops from 3 different level mobs, Gagana drop from 2 types.

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

[Silverbane]

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void.

Nonsense. As I posted, two hunting retainers are enough - I have three, and they bring in mats faster than I use them. And everyone gets two for free.

So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

Fairness, in a video game? Are you kidding? The concept doesn't even apply. Everyone plays by the same rule. What, are you envious of Blacksmiths? Then be a Blacksmith. No one is forcing you to be a Leatherworker (or Weaver).

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

What, like ingots? Like most Weaver mats?

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic ...

Isn't for Leatherworkers, the topic of this thread, since they are Weaver mats. And Weavers get easy-to-get Twincoons as a top-level mat, so they have no reason to complain. Besides, you want to talk about mat availablilty, let's talk Culinarian seafood, shall we? Checked the market prices on that lately?

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

Except it isn't. iL320 combat gear isn't based on it. It's an intermediate material currently only good for DoH and DoL, that will become just as irrelevant as Chimerical Felt (remember how hard that was to get, if you didn't have retainers?) once the next level of DoH/DoL gear is made available.

So: Please forward to whatever the iL320 DoH/DoL gear requires being even harder to get.
Yoshida-san understands that top-end crafting should be a challenge, just like top-end raiding, and that includes getting the mats for it.