DoH need major changes just like battle classes

[Clicked]

What an awful excuse of a crafting system we would have if the crafters didn't require materials from each other. That's what makes the crafting game complex/fun. We are already reduced to one-button cooks and potion makers at end game... no need to make the leveling process feel way too.

[Driavna]

What an awful excuse of a crafting system we would have if the crafters didn't require materials from each other. That's what makes the crafting game complex/fun. We are already reduced to one-button cooks and potion makers at end game... no need to make the leveling process feel way too.

I have so much fun jumping from one DoH to another to craft sub-components each time I do it! Something like that only makes sense when you can only be one DoH, right now it's a minor annoyance not even supported by the MB (you are forced to buy a whole stack instead of the amount you want/need).

[Clicked]

I have so much fun jumping from one DoH to another to craft sub-components each time I do it! Something like that only makes sense when you can only be one DoH, right now it's a minor annoyance not even supported by the MB (you are forced to buy a whole stack instead of the amount you want/need).

Not going to argue that the MB couldn't use some serious work. You can always buy a stack of stuff then resell the rest once you're done but I agree that's a huge inconvenience.

(Protip to others: Sell stuff in reasonably-sized stacks. You will sell your stuff faster and can charge a bit more for the convenience of selling smaller stacks.)

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No thanks, the crafting mafia can go home. I like seeing friends enjoy crafting now that it's more accessible. We don't need Gordias Crafting extreme. Not healthy for the game at all. There are plenty of mats that have value. Just because not everything is in the millions doesn't mean it won't sell. Play the market smarter, not make it harder.

While I am inclined to agree somewhat, the devs went too far. There is not a single recipe that requires much thought. You don't even need VI materia at all. The new abilities are so powerful, I'm able to make things below level 70. This has severely depleted the market, and not just on Balmung. As per usual, the devs overshot. I will say crafting is in a better place now for adjustments than Heavensward, but there should be much harder crafts. Novel aside, Nixxe's point isn't inherently wrong. Too much accessibility diminishes the value each item has.

[QT_Melon]

While I am inclined to agree somewhat, the devs went too far. There is not a single recipe that requires much thought. You don't even need VI materia at all. The new abilities are so powerful, I'm able to make things below level 70. This has severely depleted the market, and not just on Balmung. As per usual, the devs overshot. I will say crafting is in a better place now for adjustments than Heavensward, but there should be much harder crafts. Novel aside, Nixxe's point isn't inherently wrong. Too much accessibility diminishes the value each item has.

Sorry for the long post but here's the TL;DR:

1. People need to remember it's good for data centers that need to grow.
2. People need to break out of certain patterns
3. People need to go back and look at past iterations of this patch and realize this was pretty much the same as before, but people got wiser and overshot to compensate for a future problem. Then forgetting that this was the same as before.

You're saying not just on Balmung, but any highly populated server would have the issue in general, not just because the skills seem too easy. On servers with less crafters, it actually became more accessible and a healthier economy. It's not just about the big servers.

The thing that happened is an economical shift in general. This happens when a new generation comes in with a different mindset and are now the prime demographic. Ie Generation X will not spend the same way as a Millennial. The people who want to be first/old power will still get their profits in first because there's always a percentage that does. Other crafters will either stick to old ways and suffer. Or they change their market strategy.

We have posts complaining about mat consumption so some items are still bottlenecked like Worsted Yarn yet people complain about diminished value. Some items are completely being ignored on the market (and I'm not gonna say what since it varies on each server and stating it always messes up the markets lol) since there are those still looking at selling that 1 million dollar item, letting others easily make that amount in a few hours.

Then we go back to people complaining about the crafted gear not needed. It is needed. It just isn't needed as much for end game progression. People who may have had to take a break are no longer overwhelmed in trying to play catch up or told to "Get out" because their ilevel is too low (where players expect people to cap every week). Now that crafted gear is more accessible to catch up players.

The problem is mindset. We've done this for 3 (4 if you really want to count 1.0) iterations of this game now. People expect the same kind of market strategy as the past one. That's not gonna work. People already guessed those patterns and were immediately getting ready to capitalize on it. The Devs probably figured that out and didn't want the same kind of economy that left players frustrated. Smaller servers can grow better now because more people can craft and gather. Players can take more breaks.

The second problem is still part of the first, but we have developed patterns from this mindset. We keep thinking things will be the same but the playerbase is growing, people are easily sharing information, and people know how to look for it as well.

Third problem is people treating this tier as the same as the third or later tier of a previous patch. You didn't need to seriously meld early on either. I remember back in HW people had figured out melds that didn't take extreme overmelding at first either, then when a later patch dropped they fell behind and needed to pentameld. You think those players repeated that mistake and aren't pentamelded now (and then are upset that they didn't need to meld that way to meet stats?..oh how many have forgotten).

At a certain point, I like the reward of receiving gil for my efforts, but I do have to factor in why do I need to amass all that wealth for. Besides some cute glamours the only other item that is going to need massive spending is Housing. So that's not till maybe October?

Overall this is good for a lot more worlds than those that want to keep things the same.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You're saying not just on Balmung, but any highly populated server would have the issue in general, not just because the skills seem too easy. On servers with less crafters, it actually became more accessible and a healthier economy. It's not just about the big servers.

This simply isn't the case. At least not in reference to the perceived dilemma. Balmung does have an overabundance of crafters, yes, yet new crafted gear prices didn't plummet within days throughout Heavensward. Why? High level recipes necessitated overmelding. Not a single current craft requires more than a handful of old materia to meet the requirements since you can easily brute force through. Such isn't the result of an economical shift, but a noticeable reduction in recipe difficulty relative to the new abilities. Put plainly, Stormblood crafting is considerably easier. We would have seen this exact trend in Heavensward were there abilities like Rapid Synthesis and Manipulation II.

We have posts complaining about mat consumption so some items are still bottlenecked like Worsted Yarn

The complaint with things like Worsted Yarn relates strictly to the sheer volume associated. A fair few crafters want more focus on crafting materials, not hunting mobs on their battle jobs for hours on end because their retainers don't bring enough back per hour.

The problem is mindset. We've done this for 3 (4 if you really want to count 1.0) iterations of this game now. People expect the same kind of market strategy as the past one. That's not gonna work. People already guessed those patterns and were immediately getting ready to capitalize on it. The Devs probably figured that out and didn't want the same kind of economy that left players frustrated. Smaller servers can grow better now because more people can craft and gather. Players can take more breaks.

I'll be blunt. You give the devs too much credit. I sincerely doubt they looked into the nuisance of crafting. They changed it for easier accessibility and little else. The stronger abilities were added because they spent two years attempting to make it so you needn't level all your crafters just to be successful. The Specialist system; Red Scrips and etc were all supposed to slow down Omni-crafters while giving players who only wished to focus on a couple crafts a chance to make decent money. It failed spectacularly. Stormblood simplified the whole process by slapping on arguably overtuned abilities that make things like Waste Not II worthless. There was no big economical swing. Just a "dumbing down." Like I said, I don't entirely disagree with the decision. I do, however, feel they went too far in the opposite direction. High level crafting shouldn't be effortless. Right now, it is.

Third problem is people treating this tier as the same as the third or later tier of a previous patch. You didn't need to seriously meld early on either. I remember back in HW people had figured out melds that didn't take extreme overmelding at first either, then when a later patch dropped they fell behind and needed to pentameld. You think those players repeated that mistake and aren't pentamelded now (and then are upset that they didn't need to meld that way to meet stats?..oh how many have forgotten).

Heavensward released the craftable AF2 gear during 3.05, which was BiS. Not only have they delayed it with Stormblood, the Yellow Scrip gear equivalent is completely worthless in every way.

[QT_Melon]

The prices DID plummet within days in HW when the third raid tier went out. It's because people "knew the game" by then. The second tier took longer, and there wasn't even a first tier in HW cuz it wasn't worth it. The Devs brought it back and the second time it plummeted fairly fast, and even faster once Rath's rotation became the end game rotation. I find people complaining about Prudent being bad, when most had it figured out using that same rotation all the way through an expansion.

People wanted the first raid tier to be easier. Guess what, it is. Expecting the same market pattern when they were trying to close the gap between players. Sorry, but that already showed they weren't gonna make crafted gear needed as much for that. It's great though for players who missed the weeklies and need catch up gear.

The craftable AF2 gear, most didn't bother with it because they hated the scrip system with caps. People were still wearing white gear UNTIL craftable raid gear was a thing again in HW. The fact they had to change the favors system multiple times because people "Gave up crafting" in HW. So that was another issue.

Once someone figured out a rotation, high level crafting became effortless in about every Xpac, Raths being the biggest offender since the rotation didn't change. The only bottlenecks came from melds. As stated before, RNG doesn't make crafting more difficult for pros, it's artificial. The only way crafting is going to be more challenging is if you had some kind of restrictions like the Ixali quests or a "PoTD" version...where a penalty like "Maximum CP decreased" "Byregot's Blessing Disabled".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No they didn't. I was selling Heavy Metal Axes two weeks after they released for nearly two million a pop-- on a server notorious for its substantially lower prices. What kept those crafts valuable was the meld requirements. You couldn't reach the 995/955 check without Ironworks and proper pentamelds, thus people weren't able to brute force their way through unless they gambled RNG. Currently, you needs only reach the cap on any given craft and it's done. I don't mind the eased difficulty in theory, but it shouldn't spread to every craft available.

And people said Creator was too easy. Hence why they're scaling a separate fight exclusively for the hardcore raiders. There is a difference between easier and effortless. People claiming the current recipes are too easy aren't necessarily saying everything should be an RNG nightmare. They're saying it's so easy, they can macro it and not even pay attention aka effortless.

[QT_Melon]

They did fall for us in the third tier of HW and pretty quick. That's great if your server kept the prices but they definitely took a dive here before. I remember the complaints because other crafters had said they were being undercut heavily. You only had a few days to maximize profits because afterwards everyone else wanted in on the market. There's also the fact if someone undercuts what's deemed as "high demand" items there are a group of high end crafters that will always try to control the market. They'll band together and undercut even further to try to drive those that did mess with the prices even further out of the market. That or they buy out the gear that's lower priced and relist them to keep it artificially high.

I mean there is such thing as price fixing even in this game.

Product still keeps moving, it's just not at the same expected price as before. Some of which is a good thing because more of it moves now.