"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

What?

For someone complaining about tank responsibility, you seem to have neglected it's a tank's responsibility to pull. Therefore, purposefully pulling more means you've stepped outside your job parameters should we're to go by your logic. No one is obligated to keep another player alive because you decided to arbitrarily dart off-- away from the group-- to grab additional mobs. Once again, your argument proves hypocritical since to do that, you have to stop DPSing, which is your job, to pull, which is the tank's job. See how that doesn't quite line up? In fact, the devs dislike our rush strategies hence why gates were periodically added throughout Heavensward dungeons. They don't want tanks pulling entire rooms. What makes you think forcing mass pulls on tanks will see them punish the tank for allowing you to die? That's simply idiotic.

Regardless, GMs couldn't care less anymore than they do with healers who refuse to DPS. They will merely chalk it up to "playstyle differences" and suggest you blacklist players you don't wish to associate with again. Nothing else will come of your reports.

Putting all of that aside, your stance is rather presumption. Tanks pulling small generally aren't confident in their abilities. I have a friend who is terrified of tanking. If she were to ever attempt it, I guarantee she won't pull more than a single pack for a long while. Forcing her to suddenly grab one or two more won't abruptly make her a better tank. It'll likely have her panic spam Overpower/Unleash/Flash/CDs because she's not yet accustom to tanking and couldn't react. All you would have accomplished in this scenario is making her that much more unlikely to continue trying to improve, and wasted everyone else's time. Bluntly stated, if I were apart of that group, you'd be who I Vote Dismiss, not the tank. And this is coming from someone who mass pulls constantly.

[Delorean]

but nah if i had to say whats best about being tank it would be literally having to do nothing important to down a boss, being able to share your gear with all tank classes, helping dps do their job by keeping positionals open/enemies in aoe and just generally looking pretty dope even though eating glue and drinking windex is arguably more complicated than playing a tank.

that being said i have played my fair share of tanks maining WAR since 2.0 to 4.0 and i don't mean to make people feel bad about what they enjoy playing, but it is an easy job and if you're a person that likes to come up with a lot of excuses then tanking really isn't for you because of how every game just lays it out there for you pretty straightforward which means there are not a lot of good reasons for excuses.

[Avatre]

, but it is an easy job and if you're a person

All the jobs, if you are dedicated enough to perfecting it, can become easy. Some may take longer than others, but they can be considered easy to one person compared to another.

[NocturniaUzuki]

You can also use the feature known as "party chat" to let the tank know. I ask what kind of pulls at the start of the dungeon, 99% of the time, no one responds. I default to small pulls. I'd be happy to pull more, all one has to do is ask.

I usually do that as well. I'll say "Big pulls are fine" at the start of a dungeon. If the tank still pulls small, though, and we have a good AoE comp, I'll be a bit of a narb and just pull more mobs for him. Again, if he complains, I stop. But 9 times out of 10, the tank is just so paranoid that they still don't believe me when I say "Big pulls are fine."

[Fynlar]

A small part of me is convinced you're a troll but on the off chance I'm wrong...

You do not have "control of the run" as a tank. You are not "entitled" to anything special as a tank other than (probably) Adventurer in Need and my gratitude for doing a role I don't enjoy.

Sorry, you're wrong.

The tank is the designated puller and that's all there really is to it.

A really sad attitude - one can't help but wonder this seems to be such a problem for you? Are you in fact pulling poorly, increasing the likelyhood of dps grabbing another group while you smack away at a single mob?

It really isn't that much of a problem for me, to be honest.

Nowhere in the terms of service does it explicitly state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull. Nowhere in the tutorial of the game, during any quest, UI element, or any other form of information in the game does it state that ONLY tanks are allowed to pull.

You're right.

Because it's something that *common sense* should be able to tell players on its own, by the time they see that most dungeon mobs are a lot stronger than open world mobs and are the whole reason they warrant having a tank present in the dungeon in the first place.

But something to think about: "I won't tank because someone else pulled." That IS against terms of service and is a reportable offense, which I will report someone for 10/10 times. I'm so sick of this "You should bow down to my will or else" attitude and you know what? I'm glad GMs punish people like that. They punish people like you because no matter what, you are not allowed to just sit there and refuse to do your job and contribute. This is a MMO. It's a team game built around cooperation. You are refusing to cooperate out of spite because you think you are better than others and you adhere to this unwritten rule that a few entitled individuals like you feel should be enforced because reasons. You are not better than others.

Yeah, tank focusing on what they pull is a reportable offense, but someone else trying to pull over the tank and essentially doing the same thing you are accusing tanks of, trying to force tanks to "bow down to my will or else", is perfectly fine, right? Hypocrisy at its finest.

As a tank you ARE REPLACEABLE.

Did you mean that we're always able to just hop in another dungeon? Because yeah, you're right. I've seen lots of groups held up for a while due to a missing tank though, based on the number of times I have queued inprog for a dungeon that's lasted 45m or more.

[KisaiTenshi]

I've been running into this a lot recently in my roulettes, more so than I can remember it happening in the past. DPS or healers just running off to pull more in the middle of a fight, sprinting past me to pull the next group, etc.

Blame PotD.

My opinion is that you let the tank set the pace, and let the healer set the size of the pull. Big pulls, and chain pulls have different problems. DPS and Healers pulling throws a monkey wrench into where a tank may know the dungeon layout, but sets the pace to where they know they can handle it. That's typically two groups and only pulling one group to areas that have second wave mechanics. Some of the level 60+ content pulls the "surprise, extra wave of baddies", which results in either the pull becoming too large to heal, or the tank being unable to use their oCD's because they already used them all in doing the pull in the first place. I'm not fond of "chain pulls" where the tank takes off before the last mob is dead, because that often results in half the MP/TP regenerating on the other players, so you start the next fight at half strength.

PotD ,which you can do after doing Satasha, Tam-Tara Deepcroft, and CopperBell Mines once for the storyline, is a really terrible way of teaching people how to play the game, because everyone just zerg-rushes every room, stepping on every trap, no strategy.

Then they bring this foolishness into all the dungeon content. It's amazing how you can get one bad PUG and one good PUG on the exact same dungeon, and the group who zergs things ends up taking longer because the tank is constantly having to fight the DPS for hate, the healer is having to heal someone other than the tank, and the DPS are shooting at mobs that the tank isn't targeting. Why would anyone want to be a tank in a 16-49 dungeon when sprouts and crowns alike are just being selfish instead of working as team. Who really wants to stop and give the same lecture to the DPS that the Hall of the Novice lays out, every time you start a dungeon:

[Fynlar]

Definitely agree that POTD has made this particular issue worse; there was a marked increase in how much I saw this behavior in 3.x compared to 2.x and I highly suspect the blame lies there.

I'm not fond of "chain pulls" where the tank takes off before the last mob is dead, because that often results in half the MP/TP regenerating on the other players, so you start the next fight at half strength.

I do this sometimes to keep the steady pace going, but I understand the whole reduced regeneration thing and I don't start running until the last mob is around critical HP (and I usually use a stun here to stick him in place before I run, if he's not already been made stun immune by Holy spam or something).

Also while we're on that subject, as a non-tank, it's important to note your own MP/TP after a fight when a longer pull is being made; if you're still recovering it is probably wise not to throw DoTs and such at the various mobs as they're being pulled so that you remain "out of combat" for longer and can recover more quickly before the next pull is settled and you engage.

[MirielleLavandre]

I made a thread awhile back that got a lot of support and agreement about how there is not a shortage of tanks, but just a shortage of tanks willing to use the DF. This topic is an excellent example of why I don't tank DF with pugs, and according to my thread and the responses there and here, it is the most wise decision. Just don't PUG -- and you can avoid all of this // let people who think tanks don't decide the pace based on their experience/comfort level/gear, etc. pull all they want and/or kick tanks all they want (good luck with those queues should you not find a tank searching for in-progess). Do yourself a favor and just do roulettes/dungeons with friends and FC mates.

Some other thoughts from non-DF tanks: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tage-of-tanks.

[Delorean]

Did you mean that we're always able to just hop in another dungeon? Because yeah, you're right. I've seen lots of groups held up for a while due to a missing tank though, based on the number of times I have queued inprog for a dungeon that's lasted 45m or more.

this isnt 2.0 lol

wait for a replacement tank is usually at longest like 10min...

[Fynlar]

this isnt 2.0 lol

wait for a replacement tank is usually at longest like 10min...

Say that to the 45m+ in prog dungeon queues I still land in to this day.

Also, say that to the parties I've had as a non-tank where the tank bailed and the wait was so long I eventually had to reach out to my server's NN for a replacement (as well as the lamenting when I realize I got idle kicked from my NN prior to entering the dungeon, preventing me from being able to make the request for help)