"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

[Odstarva]

I'm always baffled by people that will spend 50 minutes in a queue, and yet when they finally get to the thing they wanted to do... all they want is for it to be over and done with as soon as possible...

The world isn't so black and white.


Personally, I just like to optimize my free time. In-game, there are a bunch of things I want to do - things such as gathering, crafting, chatting with friends. I want to run the dungeon, of course, might even be one I like but I also like keeping the pace up.
I don't know why you'd imply running things at a faster rhythm is less enjoyable. Some of us actually like a making dungeons a bit more challenging rather than killing one monster at a time.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I'm always baffled by people that will spend 50 minutes in a queue, and yet when they finally get to the thing they wanted to do... all they want is for it to be over and done with as soon as possible...

If you finish a dungeon 5-10mins you will be in the next dungeon queue 5-10mins earlier. Also in that 5-10mins you could have done a FATE in that time.

[Fynlar]

Selecting a dungeon's pace is a tank's right and responsibility. Gauging a group, deciding what to try, and reallocating focus if things don't turn out as planned. Anyone who wants to pull instead of follow needs to get off their dps or healer and roll their own tank instead.

This. Unless it truly looks like an accident, I follow the "you pull it, you tank it" mindset.

I honestly can't stand baby pulls in expert dungeons. There's no excuse for it because unlike leveling dungeons, we vastly overgear it.

There is no expert dungeon right now that I would say we "vastly overgear"

Even still, what you say doesn't even matter anyway unless you're the tank.

If you're a tank and you get DPS pulling ahead of you, you're not respecting their own role, their time, or their efficiency to appropriately do their role. You only respect yourself and tank status.

In most cases I've seen this happen, it's when we already have enemies present and someone (isn't always a DPS; if anything it's more often a healer) specifically runs ahead to pull more back, and trust me, they're the only people being disrespectful here. Your statement overgeneralizes the situation.

Honestly, just because I can handle the monster pulls doesn't mean I want to every damn time. If a tank can't be bothered to fscking ask first, I've started letting them die.

This. Sometimes monster pulls just give me a goddamn headache and I just want a steady paced dungeon (which isn't to say I just stand around inbetween pulls or something; I do keep going and the dungeon still never feels slow). You'll live if it takes 25 minutes instead of 22 or something, jeez.

Personally, as a healer, I tend to up the pulls to silently tell the tank "I can handle it."

Again, it's not about what you can handle. Tank actively deciding to pull less is not solely because he thinks you can't handle it; it can be for multiple reasons. Maybe he thinks the DPS can't/won't handle it. Maybe his CDs are down. Or maybe like I said, managing/fighting 10 things at once all the time gets headache-inducing.

The only time I welcome this sort of behavior would be if there is a patrolling mob ahead (like the aevis in Stone Vigil) that can be pulled separately from a mob pack.

A tank does not get to decide the pace.

That's precisely what they do. Tanks make the pulls and decide when and how to do it. The game actively encourages this by giving them better HP, defense, and enmity tools to handle a pull with.

Sure, it's up to the rest of the party whether or not they *follow* that pace, but the tank is the one that sets it each and every time they make a pull.

[Laladyn]

Reading throu this, what i see is a lot of people behaving stupid in either direction, You should all uninstill the game or stop being acting stupid or like a spoiled child.
Just get throu the dungeon as good as you can be nice to your party members no matter what happens or you think is wrong or right. Grow the fuck up everyone.
This behavior really makes me sick, and is the reason why we cant have nice things.

[micropanther7]

I always adjust to the tank's flow... though I have derped a few times and pulled by accident, usually on SAM :/ No way would I pull on purpose, unless the tank has set that kind of pace and is comfortable doing mass pulls, and you can usually tell if your group is all on the same page (stuff dies fast, popping defensive cooldowns at appropriate times etc), it can be lots of fun. Enjoy it on WHM too It's about adjusting to the group's composition when in DF, and communication... but god forbid people actually talk to each other and relate to one another

[Chadness]

This is one of my pet peeves, and I'm not even a tank! I do party with one often, though. We both will tend to give a person a chance, so if they pull once, we'll mention it or hint at the fact that we don't like it. If they do it again, then things can get testy.

Here's the deal - my friend the tank doesn't like to pull large, even being geared very well, under normal circumstances. I don't particularly care for it, either. However, all you literally have to do is ASK, and he will. That's it, just ASK. No one ever does, they just DO. And that's where the breakdown in communication comes. We've removed certain individuals from our parties before for not taking the hint after being asked several times to stop (including DPS, who I begin to feel slightly sorry for, because I am one, but after a certain point, our patience is non-existent).

It's all about common courtesy. Just ask us, an we will likely pull for you. If you don't, then we'll have an issue.

On the other side of things, the vast majority of times when I'm not playing with my friend, when tanks pull large, there's at least one wipe, maybe more. I don't know if this is just the fact that they are bad tanks, or if it's the healer, or whatever. I don't particularly like playing the blame game. But if you pull once and wipe, get the hint and just slow down a bit. It takes more time to wipe once, than it does to pull individual groups and kill them instead of pulling all mobs between bosses, or whatever people tend to do these days.

[Jib]

As in real life, the same in games. Be polite, understanding and honest. I main WHM, I'm at a point that I'm well geared. If I think that a tank is pulling little and I'm confident I can handle it what I do is very simple and amazing...

I mention it / ask

"If you want to pull more I think I can handle it, but your choice, do what you are comfortable with"

Majority of times the tank pulls more and it is fine. If you communicate politely normally ppl will agree.

[Neophyte]

Lel @ "You pull, you tank it".

Wanna have Shirk/Shadewalker battle? xD

Anyway, playing tank myself often enough... lettingsomeone die just because you can is just bad tanking.
Ye, the dps might be not in the right there. Still, bad tank with victim mentality.

I mean, really?
"I will stop smart playing and instead of keeping the new adds together I'll let the dps die and then grab the adds from the healer who is sooooo glad to have to rezz someone (because, maybe, he wants to just get the enemies down at some point and doesnt care about ego battles?)."
Hurr durr, i am good tank.


Also, even if you can't handle the pull then.. if you're not in a hurry why is a wipe because some1 overestimated the tanks/healers capabilities that bad? "It's just 5 minutes more."
And If we wipe I can still blame him.

I rather tell a fantasy tale about that stupid rogue who I had to save from certain death than the tale of me putting my finger in the nose while letting some stupid person die.

[silverlunarfox]

Anyway, playing tank myself often enough... lettingsomeone die just because you can is just bad tanking.

Because pulling is good dpsing/healing? Nah...If they want to kill the mob so bad, they can kill it. I used to care about people who did that and would still catch the aggro on that mob, then as I mained tanking, I stopped caring. Because so many people do it....You just lose a bit of your soul each time. Eventually....a person runs out of shits to give....

[ilea]

It's all situational, to be honest. I had a WAR (myself as AST) in one of the end game dungeons last night. He pulled two packs, then proceeded to run off and grab the dogs as well. Needless to say, we melted. No communication happened, but we adjusted accordingly.

OTOH, it's rewarding to pull hard as a tank if you know your party can handle it. It's also frustrating when party members run off and pull things to you, or huff and puff at your "slowness." Everybody does it, but I think DPS are especially guilty of this.

I know a lot of BLM -- and myself, as a SMN -- who will start boss fights or early engage a pack in order to keep Enochian/spend Ruin IV procs.

Gonna echo a point made earlier in the thread where communication is key. I feel like the tank and healer should have more of a say than DPS how the dungeon flows, but it's a game. Adjusting to early pulls, over-pulls, and losing your procs doesn't mean you're letting your playtime get ruined.