SMN - Most Glaring Issues

[dinnertime]

Scholars lost their identity

I don't know about you but Scholar feels just about the same for me except for not having Miasma II and Blizzard II. Their identity is still there.

...

Anyway I do like the new Summoner's core gameplay. Less focus on DoTs and how easier it has been is good for me because the DoT management pre-SB is so annoying since their durations are uneven. Both jobs rely more on Aetherflow now too and it will benefit their pets.

I do think Summoner has problems that actually made me not want to main it right now however. The Aethertrail/Aetherflow change made it become more punishing even though they abolished its countdown, Devotion being underwhelming, the lack of Sustain, Demi-Bahamut's design flaws and just how Summoner just feels so weak compared to the other casters. It's disheartening that the devs didn't acknowledged Summoner's actual problems in the Live Letter.

[Ariomi]

I don't know about you but Scholar feels just about the same for me except for not having Miasma II and Blizzard II. Their identity is still there.

...

I prefer old Summoner. Yes dots were a thing, But it was something other then Ruin spam.You could do interesting things, Like Raging Strikes Dreadwyrm Trance Tri-Disaster Contagion then Fester twice in dreadwyrm trance before you deathflare.

I saw a far more experienced Summoner then me make an in-depth Opener. In said opener they used Ruin 2 and Ruin3 a combined total of 38 times....

Thirty.... eight.... times... All the changes to Summoner take away the identity they have had since hitting level 50 in a real reborn. We were the Dot Pet class. Tri-Disaster is almost pointless now. Back in Heavensward it was cool. Instantly apply all your dots. Now? Uhhh... It takes two seconds for me to apply my dots normally... And Miasma 3 does damage when I apply dots normally...

New Summoner is dumbed down. Painfully streamlined so much, that it punishes people who used to play it on an advanced level. It's even clunky locking Aetherflow stacks behind Dreadwyrm trance.

"Oh you accursed summoners! How dare you find a way to make your class more interesting! You did something clever with your class to do more damage! I'll nerf you straight into the ground and make Dreadwyrm trance the most boring thing ever!" - Square Enix

Cause every Summoner ever asked that we spam Ruin more right?

[Gallus]

You guys saying 3.0 SMN was better...no way. The only thing that HW SMN had better was the damage. The gameplay was an absolute mess with a million OGCDs coming up in the middle of a DWT, a horrible raging strikes and nonresponsive contagion which had to be lined up with a nonreseteable tridisaster. Not to mention shadowflare and how it forced to burn your swiftcast for some DPS gain turning your raise spell into useless utility.
Stop smoking weed 3.0 SMN was horrendous.

[dinnertime]

snip

I have to agree that the Ruin-spamming it has become now is pretty boring and I think SE not add anything interesting at all in 60-70 also is something to blame here. Yes, Demi-Bahamut looks cool but it's pretty much another Deathflare that's a tad stronger, but that's not really my problem about Demi-Bahamut.

I do miss a lot of things about the old Summoner though. Now that I think about it, the only thing I really like about the new SMN is easier DoT management (which made Tri-Disaster pretty pointless as you said. If only the Ruination buff was a lot better...) and Aethertrail having no countdown...that's it I guess. I'd like the new SMN a lot better if they fixed the problems pretty much most people agree with, right now I have mixed feelings for it, mostly hate.

[Ariomi]

You guys saying 3.0 SMN was better...no way. The only thing that HW SMN had better was the damage. The gameplay was an absolute mess with a million OGCDs coming up in the middle of a DWT and a horrible raging strikes and nonresponsive contagion which had to be lined up with a nonreseteable tridisaster.
Stop smoking weed 3.0 SMN was horrendous.

Heavensward was 100% better. You Contagion after your dots are up. As long as your pet does contagion any time in the next 15 seconds you were set. Your unresponsive pet does the same thing now and all of your cooldowns are misaligned. You literally could Macro your pet to contagion after you use tri-disaster.
Contagion was a hard 560 potency Increase, You could Fester for 15k under dreadwyrm and raging Strikes, Summoner was more then a ruin mage.

OGCDS? Summoner literally only had three. Aetherflow stacks Tri Disaster and deathflare. Everything else like Enkindle or the pet buffs and had a minute, or two minute cooldown. Ninja, Monk, and Dragoon have way more OGCDS then Summoner ever had to deal with. Mudras, Mug, Jugulate, Dream within a Dream, Duality, Trick attack, or for monk, internal release, Shoulder tackle, Perfect Balance, Steel Peaks, Howling Fist, Elixir Field, Forbidden Chakra, the list goes on and on.

And Summoner gave you all the time in the world, Your dots easily let you weave OGCDS. Swiftcast Raging Strikes Dreadwyrm Trance Ruin 3 and Tri Disaster and contagion is super easy. You literally use most of your OGCDs in dreadwyrm trance and you don't have to worry about them.

You're wrong if you think anything about new summoner is ok.

[Angry_Evil]

You guys saying 3.0 SMN was better...no way. The only thing that HW SMN had better was the damage. The gameplay was an absolute mess with a million OGCDs coming up in the middle of a DWT, a horrible raging strikes and nonresponsive contagion which had to be lined up with a nonreseteable tridisaster. Not to mention shadowflare and how it forced to burn your swiftcast for some DPS gain turning your raise spell into useless utility.
Stop smoking weed 3.0 SMN was horrendous.

I mean... nothing rly changed then? There's still million OGCDs and now you actually need to line em up properly? Contagion is still unresponsive but now you also need to deal with bahamut which is clunky and unresponsive too...
3.0 SMN was in fact an improvement over 2.0 SMN.
If 3.0 summoner was horrendous then 4.0 is straight up a disaster lol...

[Fantasy9]

All smn nerfs(1dot, SF, bane, r3 potency) are there for a reason - it being bahamut. Which is a lot of dps especially when your atherflow stacks are ready. So I don't see them boosting bane back even a little, especially after overall aoe nerfs.
The only way to make smn AOE more impactful and satisfying I see - is to rework the job from ground up, get rid of dots pets etc. and make job around summoning like they did with bahamut. Then we would be able to have high potency impactful skills. And while we have nonstop firing turret that does like 20% of damage it won't happen.

That's hilarious.

They(SE) practically did that with the PvP. You don't even have egis anymore, and they made it so you only need one aether rotation to summon bahamut.

[nanatotempole]

I agree that messing up your stacks is far too punishing. Nothing like hitting fester on a dotted boss, only to have him go invuln so it misses. It honestly would be better if there were two different bars; one for aether and the other for deathwyrm stacks. That way if you have deathwyrm trance ready to go, but are for some reason OOM**, you can still aetherflow to be ready to cast the aether abilities as soon as you exit deathwyrm trance.

**for me, it happened when i was trying to solo Mog Ex, and my mana was stolen.

I personally don't want sustain to return; it left b/c of bar clutter, tho they do need something. Maybe increased potency of physick on your pet and/or it also applies a regen effect.

[Claviusnex]

I personally don't want sustain to return; it left b/c of bar clutter, tho they do need something. Maybe increased potency of physick on your pet and/or it also applies a regen effect.

Sustain doesn't have to add to bloat. Just change Physick to Sustain when you pick the Summoner job at level 30. SE already changes other actions dynamically based on your sync level so this shouldn't really be that hard.

[ThirdKeyOfSun]

Despite the issues (whether some believe them to exist or not) is anyone else excited by them adding a text command to resize Demi Bahamut at a player's discretion? Doesn't this open up the door for SMN to get 'Demi' versions of other primals and other players can freely decide if they are cluttering their screen or not and take action independantly so no one can complain? I think this could lead to something very amazing! I think someone also suggested that enkindle could be a mini form of summon Bahamut but for our current Egi (changing with the skin I suppose?). The demi could come out and we have a short time to use an exclusive (or set of exclusive) ability with them and end with the actual 'astral flow' ability that enkindle currently uses (I only know the FFXI name for it sorry D: )