Not again...

[Tegernako]

So assuming all tanks do the same damage, PLD has all these toys that benefit your raid, and the others have... TBN and a redundant slashing debuff... and now we're back to square one. With all the bells and whistles that they added to PLD, WAR and DRK could have easily kept Reprisal and Path and they would have been balanced. But they didn't, and moreover, they no longer even have a DPS advantage so... what are they gonna do, give them Trick Attack clones? Then you'd be back to HW and PLD would be benched. *shrug*

And those times when TBN doesn't break? lol

Such utility.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/
*snip*

... and let's be honest, that's such a minor change I wouldn't even consider it a nerf...

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

I like you. Let's be friends!

I'm with you. I honestly don't understand the drama in this thread. We have people acting like SE is ruining paladins while buffing warriors to godmode.

The changes are quite reasonable. Not sure when they are supposed to be implemented. This Tuesday or the following Tuesday?

[YitharV2]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

Because nerfing makes you feel much worse than buffing makes you feel good. My viewpoint is not that we should never nerf, but we should avoid it if possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55s

Yes we can. All SE needs to do is adjust the content. As for old content, well old content is overgeared most of the time anyways. Yes, nerfing is easier but imo it's also the "lazy" way to balance things. Oh, WAR stance dancing too good? Let's just halve their gauge. That'll make everything fine. Scholar too powerful? Let's just nerf Shadowflare and Bane and their fairy. We can see how well those nerfs worked out.

That being said, this nerf is somewhat mild. That still doesn't change my opinion about nerfing.

[AziraSyuren]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/

Okay, I'll explain my own perspective.



Certain things are quite obviously undertuned. These undertuned things are usually unsatisfying to play in one way or another that doesn't just amount to the fact that they're undertuned.

A good example of this is Dark Knight, which has a kit that flows rather well and is pretty easy to use, but extra effort you put in is unsatisfying because you're not really rewarded for it, as the reward you gain for extra effort (Blood Gauge, ergo more Bloodspillers) really doesn't feel that amazing.

An example of the opposite is Warrior, because using Inner Release and going absolutely nuts with the hexacleave combo feels and looks great, until you look at your DPS, and you realize that all the effort you put in doesn't really garner that much of a reward, especially because you need to waste multiple extra GCDs to use that combo if you happen to be main tanking. You can hardly do this combo without absolute mastery of a given fight, and getting targeted by an RNG mechanic at a bad time ruins it even if you know the fight completely.

The solution to the problem with Dark Knight isn't nerfing Paladin, it's making Bloodspiller more satisfying to use, giving greater reward for proper utilization of TBN, or any number of things, really. The solution to the problem with Warrior isn't nerfing Paladin, it's making the class itself easier to use, or at the very least, making it more convenient and consistent.

My point is that the problem with most of the underpowered classes in this game is that they have fundamental design flaws that need fixing and, upon fixing, will likely be far more balanced compared to the ones people see as overpowered. Dragoon is unintuitive and doesn't reward you properly for utilization its alleged "super move (Nastrond)." Black Mage is unintuitive to the degree that its 4.0 rotation is both on par with and far more difficult than its modified 3.0 one. I shouldn't have to explain what all is wrong with Scholar.

There are probably some that I missed (such as what's wrong with Machinist and Summoner) but these are the ones that really stand out to me.

These design flaws need to be fixed before you nerf anything. You need to make classes more fun before you make other ones less fun, else you're just making the game worse.

[MyaValentine]

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

Oh! my "dude" you are so right! look how great it worked for WAR,SCH,SMN and MCH yeah look how good and balanced they are, LOOK HOW FUN you know what we should give you developer of year award because you clearly know how balancing work.

Yes you can keep buffing up classes, my dude, this is not diablo, this is not street fighter buffing classes isn't going to either break content or cause power creep because anything outside of individual classes are so easily changeable. People in these forums swear a buff means make the next class the op one, no, they can buff them just enough to be on par with the classes that currently feel good, it makes the player base happy it makes the developers happy and everyone is happy don't need to keep playing lottery "who's going to get nerf/buff" next patch. But because of your great Ideas and views just as good as the developers classes were nerfed and now more rebalanced needs to be done and after this more and more and more.

you should watch the video they just linked above and learn a thing or 2 before acting so smart.

[MyaValentine]

Okay, but you don't even know what that "nerf" is and you don't even know if the stance dance penalty removal will be a dps increase

stance dancing buff for paladin means absolutely nothing dps wise, the nerf was clearly stated that it will be a longer cast time and on a mr.happy video also said that the potency will take a hit, so this will mean we won't be able to use full mana on a requiescat window, we won't be able weave abilities in between and we will most likely loose any sort auto attack making a dps loss, but what It also does is making it like clemency 3.0 where the cast time/potency will not be worthy outside of buffed requiescats and you will no longer be able to throw in quick cast when you are out of range because of some AOE attacks, essentially making the class more clunky that what it feels now which is perfect. while the nerf isn't much, nerving pld while buffing the other 2 will risk HW to happen again meaning, war top dps required spot and pld and dark pulling their skin for the second spot. and what we want is every tank comp to be awesome not just war/drk, war/pld. I don't want pld to be top dps I want paladin to be fun which is what it's now.

[Tegernako]

while the nerf isn't much, nerving WAR while buffing the other 2 will risk SB to happen again meaning, PLD top dps required spot and WAR and dark pulling their skin for the second spot. and what we want is every tank comp to be awesome not just war/drk, war/pld. I don't want WAR to be top dps I want WAR to be fun which is what it's now.

Man it's freaking weird, it's basicaly what WAR players were saying lol. Actually, I took the liberty of replacing PLD with WAR because it's almost word for word the same stuff we were saying o.o


Course for some, it's only NOW an issu.

Especially the last part, more then anything I just wanted my class to be fun again yet i got told stuff like

1. You don't know all the changes. So why are you complaining?

2. It forces you to be more tactical.

3. You're not a dps, youre a tank.

*sighs*

People...

Irregardless, it's not long. Let's wait until the patch comes out, if it really does mess with the class that much I'll support...you...well...I'll support the class.

[DWolfwood]

Spiroglyph said it best.



You can't keep buffing classes forever, dude.

/thread

[Dizzy_Derp]

what It also making the class more clunky that what it feels now which is perfect. while the nerf isn't much, nerving pld while buffing the other 2 will risk HW to happen again meaning, war top dps required spot and pld and dark pulling their skin for the second spot. and what we want is every tank comp to be awesome not just war/drk, war/pld. I don't want pld to be top dps I want paladin to be fun which is what its now.

You use holy spirit outside of requiescat? I dont know if I should cry or just accept that people are always gonna do stupid things. And you say that but right now the only viable tank comp is pld and pld/war/drk. Just adimit if pld doesnt have a 100% gaurenteed spot you arent gonna be happy. Stop crying. Everyone is going all doomsday and shit for no reason. Pld could do 300 less dps that it is capable of now and everyone would still want them. it's the smoothest tank it's still gonna be tuesday.

[Deathshiro]

To respond to OP, there needs to be equality in terms of dps to utility exchange

Utility wise it should be: PLD>DRK>War

Damage wise: War>DRK> PLD

A good pld can still do good damage and a War should be able to be able to achieve high enough damage to outclass the utility etc etc
DRK should be able to be decent in both, but excel if they are skilled in both.

If these archetypes didn't exist then what's the point of having two handed heavy weapon tanks that hit like noodles and wear pizza armor whilst their co-worker tank is wearing shiny plate armor using The Prince That was Promised sword to slay all evildoers.

Pld in hw was FINE, it just needed more utility and the ability to OT, they got that, they don't need more damage.