Not again...

[Spiroglyph]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/

No, okay, I lied.
I kind of get it.
People with a certain main that is currently in the spotlight for that certain role don't want to see their job changed, they want it to be relevent and good and AWESOME. I don't blame you for it, really, although I don't main any of the three tanks I do main a job that saw some serious nerfing in SB and as it had been amazing in HW, obviously I was not overly happy.

Please undertand though, that simply buffing and keep on buffing all jobs until they're equal could just create more problems than it's worth.

A tank with awesome survivability AND topdps at the same time like WAR was back in HW? I mean, okay, it was a thing to behold, but you can't simply buff up other tanks to its level. It would mess up not only the TANK balance but it would also drag in other roles: DPS crying about tanks having too much utility and them being redundant. tanks being shunned for not stance dancing because they're supposed to DPS because they're able to pull amazing numbers and so THEY HAVE to stance dance, etc.

A healer with too potent heals? Let's just amp up all other healer classes to HW level where they could just DPS all the damn time. Dude, as much as I like to help out and DPS, it gets boring.

A DPS with too high numbers? Well, let's increase potencies and reduce skill costs for all other DPS jobs so stuff can be burnt down so quick you won't have time to sneeze midfight anymore or risk it being over

The above examples are obvious exaggerations, but I hope I was able to make a point somewhat?
Buffing all jobs in certain role won't mess ONLY with the dynamics of that role - it will mess with other roles as well, and will implicate that BESIDES the role changes all other content would have to be revised so teams won't be too OP to clear stuff with literally no challange.

... and let's be honest, that's such a minor change I wouldn't even consider it a nerf...

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

[Kacho_Nacho]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/
*snip*

... and let's be honest, that's such a minor change I wouldn't even consider it a nerf...

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

I like you. Let's be friends!

I'm with you. I honestly don't understand the drama in this thread. We have people acting like SE is ruining paladins while buffing warriors to godmode.

The changes are quite reasonable. Not sure when they are supposed to be implemented. This Tuesday or the following Tuesday?

[YitharV2]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

Because nerfing makes you feel much worse than buffing makes you feel good. My viewpoint is not that we should never nerf, but we should avoid it if possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55s

Yes we can. All SE needs to do is adjust the content. As for old content, well old content is overgeared most of the time anyways. Yes, nerfing is easier but imo it's also the "lazy" way to balance things. Oh, WAR stance dancing too good? Let's just halve their gauge. That'll make everything fine. Scholar too powerful? Let's just nerf Shadowflare and Bane and their fairy. We can see how well those nerfs worked out.

That being said, this nerf is somewhat mild. That still doesn't change my opinion about nerfing.

[AziraSyuren]

I really, REALLY don't understand this mindset where people believe no job should even be nerfed :/

Okay, I'll explain my own perspective.



Certain things are quite obviously undertuned. These undertuned things are usually unsatisfying to play in one way or another that doesn't just amount to the fact that they're undertuned.

A good example of this is Dark Knight, which has a kit that flows rather well and is pretty easy to use, but extra effort you put in is unsatisfying because you're not really rewarded for it, as the reward you gain for extra effort (Blood Gauge, ergo more Bloodspillers) really doesn't feel that amazing.

An example of the opposite is Warrior, because using Inner Release and going absolutely nuts with the hexacleave combo feels and looks great, until you look at your DPS, and you realize that all the effort you put in doesn't really garner that much of a reward, especially because you need to waste multiple extra GCDs to use that combo if you happen to be main tanking. You can hardly do this combo without absolute mastery of a given fight, and getting targeted by an RNG mechanic at a bad time ruins it even if you know the fight completely.

The solution to the problem with Dark Knight isn't nerfing Paladin, it's making Bloodspiller more satisfying to use, giving greater reward for proper utilization of TBN, or any number of things, really. The solution to the problem with Warrior isn't nerfing Paladin, it's making the class itself easier to use, or at the very least, making it more convenient and consistent.

My point is that the problem with most of the underpowered classes in this game is that they have fundamental design flaws that need fixing and, upon fixing, will likely be far more balanced compared to the ones people see as overpowered. Dragoon is unintuitive and doesn't reward you properly for utilization its alleged "super move (Nastrond)." Black Mage is unintuitive to the degree that its 4.0 rotation is both on par with and far more difficult than its modified 3.0 one. I shouldn't have to explain what all is wrong with Scholar.

There are probably some that I missed (such as what's wrong with Machinist and Summoner) but these are the ones that really stand out to me.

These design flaws need to be fixed before you nerf anything. You need to make classes more fun before you make other ones less fun, else you're just making the game worse.

[MyaValentine]

tl;dr: can't just keep on buffing up classes, my dude, there'd cease to be an actual point in like, running content lmao

Oh! my "dude" you are so right! look how great it worked for WAR,SCH,SMN and MCH yeah look how good and balanced they are, LOOK HOW FUN you know what we should give you developer of year award because you clearly know how balancing work.

Yes you can keep buffing up classes, my dude, this is not diablo, this is not street fighter buffing classes isn't going to either break content or cause power creep because anything outside of individual classes are so easily changeable. People in these forums swear a buff means make the next class the op one, no, they can buff them just enough to be on par with the classes that currently feel good, it makes the player base happy it makes the developers happy and everyone is happy don't need to keep playing lottery "who's going to get nerf/buff" next patch. But because of your great Ideas and views just as good as the developers classes were nerfed and now more rebalanced needs to be done and after this more and more and more.

you should watch the video they just linked above and learn a thing or 2 before acting so smart.

[Gravton]

Another point that I haven't seen brought up is the sheer amount of mitigation pld provides while not even tanking. Rampart + intervention, sentinel + intervention, enhanced cover, reprisal, Devine veil, passage of arms. That's more mitigation than the other 2 tanks have to use on themselves. All of this mitigation for a main tank while we off tank. With current hp climbs this ensures both tanks have 100% uptime in dps stance. This slight hit to our individual dps is a nothing burger, party dps overal will still be higher with a pld present. Super savage will also gaurentee a slot for pld.

[Tanathya]

SE leave PLD alone, it's fine, just buff WAR and DRK!

They always do this, instead of just buffing the struggling jobs they also nerf the one that's doing fine and end up reversing the situation!

While I agree with you in what they use to do, we all should rejoice, as that adjustment won't really be a nerf. I don't think they're gonna increase Holy Spirit's casting time dramatically, to be honest. Now, what I would do is remove the Gauge cost of stance changing throughout all of the tanks and not just WAR.

[DWolfwood]

Spiroglyph said it best.



You can't keep buffing classes forever, dude.

/thread

[Dizzy_Derp]

what It also making the class more clunky that what it feels now which is perfect. while the nerf isn't much, nerving pld while buffing the other 2 will risk HW to happen again meaning, war top dps required spot and pld and dark pulling their skin for the second spot. and what we want is every tank comp to be awesome not just war/drk, war/pld. I don't want pld to be top dps I want paladin to be fun which is what its now.

You use holy spirit outside of requiescat? I dont know if I should cry or just accept that people are always gonna do stupid things. And you say that but right now the only viable tank comp is pld and pld/war/drk. Just adimit if pld doesnt have a 100% gaurenteed spot you arent gonna be happy. Stop crying. Everyone is going all doomsday and shit for no reason. Pld could do 300 less dps that it is capable of now and everyone would still want them. it's the smoothest tank it's still gonna be tuesday.

[Reynhart]

You use holy spirit outside of requiescat? I dont know if I should cry or just accept that people are always gonna do stupid things.

Can you elaborate on that ?