Halve mana on stance swap

[AdamZ]

I still think unchained is a strong cd, no other tank can ignore their tank stance damage penalty.

And it provides further incentive to tank in deliverance as much as possible which I think is the exact opposite direction the devs intended by the changes.

I would actually disagree with this statement now. This was true in 2.0 and 3.0, but for 4.0 consider the case of WAR and Pally. For a similar amount of time that WAR has access to unchained (20 seconds every 2 min), Pally has Requiescat, Holy Spam in tank stance. (24 seconds every 2 min) The 20% buff actually outweighs the 15% damage reduction. So you are basically getting the 24 seconds of 450 potency attacks. This is much less then the WAR Unchain buff which would just remove the damage down from tank stance, on a average combo potency of only 197.

Requiescat, Holy Spam is comparable to WAR Fell rotations, but WAR can only access these in dps stance (which is kind of the big problem people raise with WAR design when now balancing to the other two).

WAR have ALL the reason now to only ever tank/be in deliverance....

I really have no idea where you are going with these, or if you understand the job. We basically said, "we want these for QoL", you said "all you want is dps increase", then we explained them, and you are like "all it is, is QoL"....... well yes.....

[AdamZ]

Just a small note but in PvP WAR doesn't lose any BG when dropping or going in stance :^)

Damn you SE why you must tease us!

LOL don't even start with the unbalanced, useless mess that is PvP WAR.

[whiskeybravo]

I really have no idea where you are going with these, or if you understand the job. We basically said, "we want these for QoL", you said "all you want is dps increase", then we explained them, and you are like "all it is, is QoL"....... well yes.....

That's probably because I have my own internal confusions about how I feel on the whole mess myself lol

On one hand, I don't really care what they change. I'm going to play the way I play either way, just as I am now. On the other hand, I understand completely the concept and purpose of the dps-meta tanking, I just don't agree with it. It feels inherently wrong to me for some reason. I worked extremely hard maximizing my dps on dragoon, an actual strength and dps based job. The only way you push tank dps is by causing undue stress on other party members, specifically healers. It's fine in a group setting, nothing wrong with it at all if everyone agrees, but it shouldn't be the "norm" in my opinion. The reason I quit tanking in HW was because I was not about to drop millions on crafted accessories, force my healers to stress over my squishy ass, or beg monks and drgs to pass on their accessory drops so I could equip them. It's silly for many reasons (in my opinion). So if I can be a voice against that then I will be.

I guess I'm also mystified (but not really) that some people, including myself, can look at the changes and say "I can make this work". While others look at the exact same changes and scream how broken it all is. It's kind of like, 10 years ago you bought a game and played it the way it was. Now you buy a game and if you don't like it you flock to the devs and demand they change it to suit what you want. :/

So yea, if I come off as inconsistent those are some reasons why. But, we are also allowed to change our minds right? (or be proven wrong?)

[Synestra]

LOL don't even start with the unbalanced, useless mess that is PvP WAR.

Its not that bad actually assuming you are getting healed, tho 3.X was godly and this current version is just a shadow of its former glory(it was john f..king rambo back then!!)

[Poison_Rose]

To be honest i always wanted that SE would make PLD and DRK stances oGCD and free but they took the boring route and removed that luxury from WAR as well ;_;

I'm in favor of this.

[Tegernako]

Its not that bad actually assuming you are getting healed, tho 3.X was godly and this current version is just a shadow of its former glory(it was john f..king rambo back then!!)

Holmgang never gets old though. ever.

All those DPS who want to run away...nothing makes them saltier then yanking them back int the midst of you and your friends.

[eagledorf]

I love it when people claim a sarcastic thread poster is being ignorant but then claim we lose the least when we switch stances. Stuff like that is real ignorance.

He's joking...






1. How about no. Not only because you have absolutely zero proof about that but because he's exaggerating so much in this thread you literally should not take 99% of it seriously...which people are and it's just...why?

2. You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't call someone oblivious then post that.

But mathematically it is better balanced?

For example, look at the stance swap. PLD: 506 potency, DRK: 425 potency, WAR: ~400 potency. That's way better balanced than in the past when it was WAR: 0 potency.

Tank stance penalty: PLD: 25%, WAR: 22%, DRK: 23%. Certainly better than when it was at any point in ARR or HW.

It may not be perfect, but it's definitely better.

[Tegernako]

How are you calculating the potency loss? And why do you only talk about the stance dance penalty? Yes it's one of the biggest changes to war, but how about no utility? The huge loss of self sustain? The most complicated yet does the same dps as pld or even lower?

Yeah they apparently forgot the part where WAR could use a 680 potency attack while in Defiance immediately every single time they switch stances no matter what if they had the gauge. Or could use it's level 70 move in defiance. Or could use it's best mitigation ability in deliverance. Or could self heal.


It's "better" for the other tanks but a major loss to WAR in every single regard. This person seems to think that a similar dps loss equates to basically the same punishment. If the kits were exactly the same, I would agree. But the WAR job does not operate that way. It operates differently from every single job in the game. So you can't possibly just apply a dps loss and say the punishment is similar. The entire job revolves around the gauge, in DRK and PLD the gauge simply accentuates the job but does not define them. There's even a thread on PLD that talks about how useless their gauge is right now. How can that possibly equate to similar punishment?

DRK doesn't lose its blood for stance swiching. PLD doesn't lose 99% of its utility if it loses any at all. And both can make up MP loss in one combo.

When PLD and DRK switch stances they don't lose any major tools. When WAR switches stances the entire job changes.

It's not the same. Why can't people understand that?

[Zumi]

As a Paladin we already lose half our meter when we swap stances.

[Tegernako]

As a Paladin we already lose half our meter when we swap stances.

Do you lose your biggest source of mitigation when you switch? No.

Do you lose half of your of your kit when you switch? No.

Does your level 70 ability depend on your stance? No.

Do you lose your biggest dps tools when you switch? No.

Does switch and not having enough gauge to use Shelton or intervention completely ruin any chance you have to survive a hit? No.

Do you get instant 20% damage mitigation when you switch? Yes.

Can you restore MP lost with one combo? Yes.

Does your health based damage ability depend on stance and take gauge? No.

Does your dps nuke use gauge? No.

Does your heal only work in one stance? No.

Does your MP regen work in only one stance? No.

So you lose half your gauge, do you think that NOBODY has noticed or commented on that before something?

PLD's gauge is used so little that people literally have a thread right now asking for ways to make better usage of it because of how useless it is. Two abilities use it.

WAR has 10 abilities that use the gauge. 7 that are stance specific. 4 that use half the gauge.

But yeah, I'm supposed to feel bad for PLD a class that barely uses it.