Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[_Pigzig]

snip

I don't mind "catching" adds that spawned or got pulled, tank swaps and the like. After the initial control of aggro is established though, I really don't think it should be something tanks should have to worry with, unless you are just sitting there not even pressing buttons. Aggro is a very meta mechanic, detached from the actual fantasy of fighting monsters. What is it about the emnity combo that makes a mob want to stay hitting me as opposed to the DPS combo where I am actually hurting it more?

The fact that a tank might have it "too easy" after gaining aggro/hate is not a problem in my eyes. lf a tank is just sitting there halfheartedly not doing much damage? Big deal. We all know DPS get carried every day in casual content, they don't even have to be alive to win. Half of them can't even limit break but heaven forbid tank jobs also be carryable. You still have to be alive to win which is more than I can say for those DPS at the bottom of Titan's pit.

[Reynhart]

After the initial control of aggro is established though, I really don't think it should be something tanks should have to worry with, unless you are just sitting there not even pressing buttons.

Personally, I'd like enmity to be more challenging than that. But, to make up for that, DPS should do a lot more damage. The idea would be that the DPS leeway would be tied to the ability of tanks to have a proper "enmity rotation".

EDITED for idea :
What they could also make is reward us for high aggro generation. I've thought of a debuff I've called "Off-gard". The idea would be that any party member below your enmity would have increased critical rate against your target, as if the monster was so focused on you that it forgot other members. And the effect would increase with the gap in enmity. It would also give a little push to freshly resurrected DPS.

[aleph_null]

Personally, I'd like enmity to be more challenging than that. But, to make up for that, DPS should do a lot more damage. The idea would be that the DPS leeway would be tied to the ability of tanks to have a proper "enmity rotation".

Personally I wouldn't like it if tank dps gets even more reduced relative to dps jobs. It's already a pain in pug groups when I play tanks and the dps don't perform well, but at least for now I can put on slaying accs and stay as much in dps stance as I can to make up a bit for it. That's probably the main reason why I like tanking with people that I know, but absolutely prefer playing as dps with pugs since it's easier to speed up runs or carry low dps groups.

Even during creator savage a skilled dps player would do 30-40% more dps than a skilled tank (looking at 95% percentile data on fflogs pre echo), I think that's far enough.

[Reynhart]

It's already a pain in pug groups when I play tanks and the dps don't perform well

That's different. Maybe I should have phrased it differently, but I think DPS should have a much higher ceilling. If they don't perform well, they'll do low damage, ok. But, if they're really good, their damage (and enmity) could skyrocket, as long as the tank is able to keep the boss off them.
For me, it would feel very rewarding as a DPS to be able to go to medievial because my tank can secure enmity no matter what, and rewarding as a tank to see my DPS express its full potential thanks to me.

And fights wouldn't be scaled on that top ceilling. So, with realy good players, you'd see more and more skipping mechanics which is, in my opinion, a far better mentality to reward good players than hard DPS checks that punish bad ones.

[FallenWings]

I like the idea of making aggro potentially rewarding, but not in this fashion.

Because it's the whole concept of being a support again and all you've done is offload the tank's DPS onto the DPS. What will happen is that we have the problem of our contribution being reliant on others and this is especially not something that will be appreciated in pugs and DF. Both by the tanks who have bad DPS who don't utilize their efforts and by the DPS who aren't given their full potential because their tank is incompetent.

If I make the biggest aggro threshold but my glue sniffing DPS don't even get remotely close to it, it again is just wasted effort that didn't change anything in the fight, which is the whole issue of aggro as it is right now. It's an chore that needs to be done but being good at it doesn't offer anything back.

Using Balance on bad DPS will still net you bad DPS. 10% of shit is still shit.

[Reynhart]

What will happen is that we have the problem of our contribution being reliant on others and this is especially not something that will be appreciated in pugs and DF.

It shouldn't be a problem since we're supposed to be a team. Right now it really bugs me that DPS do their thing, we do ours, and there is basically no synergy between us.

If I make the biggest aggro threshold but my glue sniffing DPS don't even get remotely close to it, it again is just wasted effort that didn't change anything in the fight, which is the whole issue of aggro as it is right now.

No, because if your DPS are way below your aggro, you can focus more on personal damage than keeping your threat level high. If they can't compete even when you're tanking in DPS stance, sure, throw that tank stance away.

Idk about you but I wouldn't really feel rewarded for optimizing dps if I only do that little.

I don't feel rewarded by optimizing my personal DPS, I feel rewarded by optimizing the raid DPS. Right now, both are the same, but give me another way to do the latter, and I won't care about the fomer.

[FallenWings]

It shouldn't be a problem since we're supposed to be a team. Right now it really bugs me that DPS do their thing, we do ours, and there is basically no synergy between us.

No, because if your DPS are way below your aggro, you can focus more on personal damage than keeping your threat level high. If they can't compete even when you're tanking in DPS stance, sure, throw that tank stance away.

I don't feel rewarded by optimizing my personal DPS, I feel rewarded by optimizing the raid DPS. Right now, both are the same, but give me another way to do the latter, and I won't care about the fomer.

Synergy should be something that allows you to do more rather than restrict you of basic functions. I too don't agree with the idea that tanks should be individually lower in overall direct contribution because it's frankly again, completely reliant on your DPS to be not dumb. If we have a massive aggro lead but the DPS are not utilizing it, what's the point of us doing our damage combo when it is going to be significantly less impactful?

I like to support like any other person, but I don't like being a pocket slave. It again, kinda destroys my fantasy and my personal enjoyment of the game when tanks are designed to be side kicks/Robins to our DPS heroes/Batmans than equal team mates.

What's the point of us using big swords/axes or even straight swords if they do nothing? Why don't we just be all shield bearers since that seems to be the only thing people seem to think the role "tank" as?

I'm tired of the idea that the only appropriate flavor for tanks is Shield/More Shields when DPS can range from knives and swords to staves and guns or virtually any weapon conceivable.