Why HP inflation is a valid concern

[BlueYukiao]

Which means any adjustment at any level range would affect all content.

This is true for any stat adjustment. All talks of which stat should scale what are completely meaningless if the solution is to just tune the new gear to the new content. In such a case as that, no formulas have ever needed to change. Syz's original main point wass that there is no real tie to how taking AP off of VIT somehow spares us a runaway HP problem.

The only case where this is true would be that they plan to increment new VIT values much more slowly now, and they WANT their tanks to do worthwhile damage. However, this is going to cause us to favor any STR option we can get our hands on until they rip our i270 accessories from our cold dead (probably from a tank buster) hands.

[Yorumi]

I guess my point is why affect old, properly balanced, content when you don't have to?

What balance? No seriously what balance? People don't even do mechanics anymore in old content because of power inflation. Hard mode primals used to wipe the floor with parties, hell garuda normal used to be a threat. When was the last time you were even remotely concerned with those fights? Old content isn't balanced it's broken into a million pieces.

[Starkbeaumont]

I guess my point is why affect old, properly balanced, content when you don't have to?

cause it's old. all the job changes already made sure that you can't approach the old stuff in the same way as you did before.

[YitharV2]

And I really don't understand why we think it would be better to go back and add STR to every last piece of right-side tank gear in the game than to simply change the scaling of a single stat and be done. What is even the point of this? Is STR just a more prettier more favorite-est stat?

Because like it or not, they've specifically stated they're not going to return to VIT scaling. Even assuming you're right about everything else, that's their decision. I will also say it is possible to set AP at a different value to prevent the inflation they're referring to, but I'm assuming that's not something they want to do. Part of it is yeah they're being a bit wishy washy, but regardless of their reasons, I think they don't want to continue to change the AP scaling.

[Kitfox]

snip.

My point has never been that HP inflation in particular would be a problem, but that it's overall a stupid system to balance when everything effects everything else, instead of being more modular. Changing VIT would affect both dps and hp, to balance you would have to alter AP modifiers, incoming damage, VIT values for other classes, old content etc, instead of just altering one value without affecting others. I refuse to see how the old VIT AP system is good besides making tanks happy that their right side upgrades affect their dps. I think the tank accessories are stupid, but the STR system is good. You're free to disagree with me but I don't think there's a logical argument that would make VIT scaling a better system design-wise.

[Waliel]

What racks my stupid little brain is this: A tank that has been wearing full VIT for the entirety of this game's lifetime has had the content tuned to his/her HP (however poorly) and it has been growing steadily by the same rate over time with levels and gear - so, when did this sudden, legenedary "A WILD HP INFLATION HAS APPEARED" problem arise?

Its like, SE just pulled this problem out of a hat and was like "THIS! THIS is the problem" and everyone in this thread is just smiling and nodding when it was not something that anyone had ever complained about before ever, it was never a topic on any Live Letter prior to this month, I've literally never heard anyone talk about HP inflation as being a problem this game has or has ever had until the past week.

The time we'll have HP inflation problem is the time we'll have an overall stat inflation problem and Squenix could make tank damage scale off of PIE and it would not change anything. If the 45/45 scaling doesn't work for some reason related to cosmic rays, just skew it in favour of STR to 60/30 or so and keep the VIT lock. Make res sickness a flat -% damage instead of -% stats if that's a problem. I bet we'll have an AP inflation problem soon too.

What we got was a scary sounding excuse in the hopes of making people happy.

My point has never been that HP inflation in particular would be a problem, but that it's overall a stupid system to balance when everything effects everything else, instead of being more modular. Changing VIT would affect both dps and hp, to balance you would have to alter AP modifiers, incoming damage, VIT values for other classes, old content etc, instead of just altering one value without affecting others. I refuse to see how the old VIT AP system is good besides making tanks happy that their right side upgrades affect their dps. I think the tank accessories are stupid, but the STR system is good. You're free to disagree with me but I don't think there's a logical argument that would make VIT scaling a better system design-wise.

Why would we need to alter incoming damage or VIT for other classes when literally the only thing that changes is if tanks get AP from VIT or not.

[Sarcatica]

From HP inflation to AP inflation, really? This thing has been around since 2.0 and all I can think is SE just wants to limit tanks' DPS. What do you mean by AP inflation? You can suddenly get more AP off melding str or vit? Tanks have been the only role to actively meld STR into crafted (2.x to 3.1)/ 3.2+ accesories. Like why? Other main stats melds are useless, so why are tanks so exclusive that you can't have more STR into your accessories which is our main stat? Get it? SE clearly wants to tone down our damage. Why can't SE say that instead of HP inflation (really SE?)?

[Kitfox]

Why would we need to alter incoming damage or VIT for other classes when literally the only thing that changes is if tanks get AP from VIT or not.

Because if VIT increases both AP and HP, you can't increase/decrease one without affecting the other. If you want to change AP but retain the same eHP, you would need to alter incoming damage to match the HP change, otherwise tanks would have relatively inflated HP on AP increase and deflated HP on AP decrease. Now, if you alter incoming damage, you also have to adjust tank def/mdef or VIT (def/mdef) for all other classes, because raid AoEs hit everyone, not just tanks, unless you don't care how much they hit tanks for. For any AoE mechanics that are preceded or followed by tank busters, you probably would care.

Alternatively you could adjust VIT:AP multiplier every time you want to make a change, which would affect the whole level range, unless they have level specific modifiers for the value. That could possibly break old content tuning, which you might or might not care about. Old players probably wouldn't, new players might.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

SE clearly wants to tone down our damage. Why can't SE say that instead of HP inflation (really SE?)?

SE is horrifically scared of nerfing anything. They'd rather have something stay broken and unbalanced rather than give it a much needed nerf, and instead they'll tone them down under the guise of job changes between expansions.

This is why Balance is still 20% even though that's absolutely too strong. That's why if they feel tanks ever do too much damage, instead of making it simple and giving them less stats on their accessories or just straight weapon damage nerfs, they'll do this huge workaround and give them Tenacity, or change the way a stat scales just for them, just so they can nerf it without it looking like a nerf.

SE really needs to grow a pair, to be blunt.

[AdamZ]

Exactly. Now imagine they screwed up the scaling EVERY patch with new stuff by changing the AP multiplier. Would that be good? No. It's better they have a solid AP scaling principle and only tune the new gear to the new fight in order to not screw up the old stuff.

? Does not ilvl increases only "screw" up the old stuff? And with regards to level sync content... they just did that. With most of the DPS getting potency increases and this little thing called direct hit pre 61 stuff dies faster then ever. They really could care less about how it impacts old stuff.