Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

[Nyghtmarerobu]

1)Currently it's the same as 3.0, only difference is you can't burn Geirskoguls because "downtime is coming, better not waste BotD". So you not loving it as is now, makes 0 sense.
2)We have 3 fights with long enough downtime to make us lose BotD. Shinryuu, Lakshmi and V3. You can argue 4 if Susano loves to keep you in a gaol at the most awkward times, but that's rng. 2 out of the total 6 current endgame fights lose us BotD. They are less than half but enough to be mildly annoying, just have to live with it, we can't get every fight catered to us.
3)The risk factor is still there, we are affected the most by mechanics. And if we dance accordingly we get a low reward. Thus why I said dragoon is currently high risk-low reward unlike heavensward.

1.) being able to use geriskogul on CD and holding an off gcd dps skill is something you like doing? If its not the best moment, you sit on geirskogul, not to mention jump and spineshatter when your eyes are fully stacked. This is huge, and a very large oversight. So no, its not the same, they are "similar" but its not the same. Its like saying peanuts and cashews are the same, yes they are both nuts, but they are different.
2.) Granted omega helped with the mechanics a little but regardless of current content, its a thing, and it can and will happen again.
3.)Its not even going to be this high-risk low-reward shit, NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE A DRAGOON TO CONTENT!!

This is the state we are in. Its already going this way.

[Erys]

Snip, I feel like a crab already

You should not hold any cds if you are doing it on a basis, and not as a workaround for certain mechanics you are doing it wrong. We held cd's before too depending on mechanics, or blew them away. It's part of dealing with performing your job within a fight. In susano my static is pushing him so hard that I don't even hold the second geirskogul. I just use jump and ssd with their respective mirage dives, I waste 2 eyes but I still build 3-4 eyes in the sword phases. I see nothing wrong with it. It's a workaround. And I'm sure that there are players out there that have an even better and more clever workaround.
Yes it might happen again, but not everyfight will cater to everyone. Would be pretty boring if that was the case.
And yes it's high risk low reward even if no one plays it. It's within the design of the class. That's how it is. And I will take dragoon to content and will gladly wipe the floor with the average samurai and work my way throught everything the game throws at my face.

We lack competitivines and it won't come from really poor QoL changes because Yoshida's vision. If you make our core mechanic not affected by mechanics we are never ever getting our personal dps nor our utility up, because "jobs less affected by mechanics have less dps".

[Stormbad]

... And I will take dragoon to content and will gladly wipe the floor with the average samurai and work my way throught everything the game throws at my face...

Wat? I mostly agreed with everything you were saying in this thread until this point and lost some credibility with me. If you think an average SAM can't easily out dps a top tier dragoon, you either have only grouped with only shitty SAM or haven't a clue yourself.

[Erys]

Wat? I mostly agreed with everything you were saying in this thread until this point and lost some credibility with me. If you think an average SAM can't easily out dps a top tier dragoon, you either have only grouped with only shitty SAM or haven't a clue yourself.

Average as in your average joe. Geez. If I was talking 50th percentile sam they wouldn't wipe the floor with me. We would be already outside of the raid before he gets to laugh at me x'D
Because let's face it, most samurai players are popoto tier while they think are dealing god tier dps xP

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Snip, I feel like a crab already.

I don't appreciate personal shots. If this is how the disscussion is going to be, you can have it by yourself. So I'll ask you once, please don't do it anymore. We might not agree, but that is no reason to say that.

You should not hold any cds if you are doing it on a basis, and not as a workaround for certain mechanics you are doing it wrong.

Oh really? I was pretty sure that dragoon was a burst dps job now, where you hold everything to use with nastrond? Is that not a thing anymore? So we just suffer the penalty and play less than optimally and get screwed? Potency issues be damned, every other job doesn't get penalized that much.

In susano my static is pushing him so hard that I don't even hold the second geirskogul. I just use jump and ssd with their respective mirage dives, I waste 2 eyes but I still build 3-4 eyes in the sword phases.

This fight in paticular is rough. I agree that using the stuff early is the best option, but like many have said the ramp-up time is to long. So we do the "work around" while every other job is all.. "*yawns*, whats a downtime?" they get to keep their stuff and keep chugging like nothing ever happened, and we spend the rest of the time in sword phase Ramping up again, and not even enough time there to be ready for a party wide burst phase on the transition back into actual combat... how is this not wrong?

We lack competitivines and it won't come from really poor QoL changes because Yoshida's vision. If you make our core mechanic not affected by mechanics we are never ever getting our personal dps nor our utility up, because "job less affected by mechanics have less dps".

I'm sorry, this made no sence to me, it contradicted itself. Dragoon has the most utility of the melee classes, therefore its supposed to be lower dmg, but at the same time, its the most effected by mechanics of all the melee, so its supposed to have higher dmg? And then we end up on the bottom of the totem pole because of it?

[HoLoFoNo]

That's how it is. And I will take dragoon to content and will gladly wipe the floor with the average samurai and work my way throught everything the game throws at my face.

No, you wont because a 75th percentile SAM is the same as a 95th percentile DRG.

I've also seen you're logs and sorry to say, they are not very impressive. Feel free to conjure up any excuse or report me for slander of whatever but you shouldn't say things with such conviction that you haven't proven first.

[Stormbad]

No, you wont because a 75th percentile SAM is the same as a 95th percentile DRG.

I've also seen you're logs and sorry to say, they are not very impressive. Feel free to conjure up any excuse or report me for slander of whatever but you shouldn't say things with such conviction that you haven't proven first.

On top of that, it's not even hard to be a 75th percentile SAM, the skill ceiling is so low.

[Erys]

Snip, yet again

First of all, I don't made a personal shot against you so keep it your paranoia to yourself. I snipped one of your post before, that's why I used a silly shitty joke to lighten the mood. If you want to get angry, please, be my guest.

Next. You don't hold anything for nastrond because Nastrond lines up with your buffs naturally. You don't hold them unless dealing with mechanics that require it.
Second. So you want the same boring and mediocre playstyles other classes have instead of a thrilling one? We have the thrill we lack our reward. Please give me the high numbers. Thank you.
Again, with susano. You either use 2 nastronds or even three by opening with spineshatter dive, I think I've read something about someone doing that, in p1. Or use 2 Nastronds on the first sword and a Nastrond opener in p2 when susano gets back.

And finally you made the most ridiculous claim of the year. Unless I don't know how to add, drg's battle litany+dragon sight don't get anywhere close Ninja's trick attack ONLY on raid dps. Also ninja has the best aggro tools as utility and TA is every minute for everyone while Dragon Sight is every 2 minutes for 1 person.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0979/sheet.png

No, you wont because a 75th percentile SAM is the same as a 95th percentile DRG.

I've also seen you're logs and sorry to say, they are not very impressive. Feel free to conjure up any excuse or report me for slander of whatever but you shouldn't say things with such conviction that you haven't proven first.

Again I didn't refer to a 50th percentile SAM but at our average player. And lol I don't have any excuse for my logs because I'm not an impressive player. I said myself clearly that there are better players than me. I'm just decent. Why I can't be better? No idea, maybe I'm lazy, maybe I'm bad, maybe I should do the fights more. And you are just stating something that is there for everyone to check, I'm held accountable by it. Would be stupid to classify it as slander.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

First of all, I didn't make a personal shot against you, so keep your paranoia to yourself. I snipped one of your post before, that's why I used a silly shitty joke to lighten the mood. If you want to get angry, please, be my guest.

I didn't need an "I'm sorry" but this just proved my point. I'll take my leave.

[Maxwell]

... So you want the same boring and mediocre playstyles other classes have instead of a thrilling one? We have the thrill we lack our reward.
...

I agree on the lack of reward opinion, but not on the "thril" aspect. I dont find being punished by anything not a static dummy while other classes simply breeze past us in every way "thriling".