With all the negativity around war let's talk about the best part of 4.0!

[whiskeybravo]

It's freaking hilarious that supposedly the absolute best way you can think of to play WAR is by ignoring half the class and our brand new level 70 ability.

Kinda like those who wanna ignore the Defiance half of their abilities and only tank in Deliverance. Crazy.

[Starkbeaumont]

PLD/PLD makes every fight trivial. You can get "90%" (quotation marks because that's now how the reduction formula works it just simplifies it since I don't know the numbers) damage reduction with intervention/Sentinel for tank busters.

PLD: 100%*0.8 (ShO)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.6 (Sentinel)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up)*0.77 (Sheltron) = 17.74%
WAR: 100%*0.8 (IB)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.7 (Vengeance)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up)*0.8 (IB) = 21.5% but with 1.45*HP
DRK: 100%*0.8 (Grit)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.7 (SW)*0.7 (DADM)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up) = 18.82% but with 1.2*HP (TBN)

As you can see all 3 tanks can mitigate that much with a PLD's help. actually PLD is the weakest, if you consider the extra HP of the other 2.

I don't see why you would lower your LB gain for this.

[Dement]

PLD: 100%*0.8 (ShO)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.6 (Sentinel)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up)*0.77 (Sheltron) = 17.74%
WAR: 100%*0.8 (IB)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.7 (Vengeance)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up)*0.8 (IB) = 21.5% but with 1.45*HP
DRK: 100%*0.8 (Grit)*0.8 (Rampart)*0.7 (SW)*0.7 (DADM)*0.6 (Intervention with rampart and sentinel up) = 18.82% but with 1.2*HP (TBN)

As you can see all 3 tanks can mitigate that much with a PLD's help. actually PLD is the weakest, if you consider the extra HP of the other 2.

I don't see why you would lower your LB gain for this.

If the attack is physical, couldn't WAR also throw up Raw Intuition for an additional 20% reduction from the parry bringing them down to 17.20% and a much larger HP pool.

[Starkbeaumont]

If the attack is physical, couldn't WAR also throw up Raw Intuition for an additional 20% reduction from the parry bringing them down to 17.20% and a much larger HP pool.

ya, in this case DRK would be worse though, but still close to PLD cause of TBN.

[Tegernako]

Kinda like those who wanna ignore the Defiance half of their abilities and only tank in Deliverance. Crazy.

Find one person who never used both stances in HW.

The key phrase was "be in dps stance as much as possible." Nobody, not even people like Xenos ignored defiance, what they did was maximized the amount of time in deliverance and switched to Defiance when it made sense. People like us make usage of both stances. Your agruement is for staying in one stance, our argument is to utilize both to their maximum effect.

Also what you just said actually supports what I've said here and in other places. You need to make swapping to both stances viable so you can make the best usage of both. The current situation actually encourages people to stay only in one stance.

I don't see why you would lower your LB gain for this.

Because PLD/PLD offers a whole suite of other utility that allows them to be essentially completely self sufficient, which in turn allows healers to DPS more, especially since PLD/PLD can also dps and be self sufficient at the same time.

WAR has mitigation but it can't heal up the same way PLD/PLD can, because one PLD can heal the other so it doesn't hurt their dps rotation as much, they can cover/interven to save CD's, which both in turn help self sustain and keep healers and themselves doing damage.

WAR/WAR in HW didn't have the same level of utility/teamwork as PLD/PLD does. Seriously, try it out you basically never wipe unless DPS doesn't do their job.

I won't argue that this is a meta thing but it does exist and it's a really really easy way to get clears even if it's not quite as fast.

[Mycow8me]

Inner beast will not be always up. There will be times its not up for a tank buster, it happens even to the best of us.

Inner beast is also not that useful for large groups of mobs for anything other than to help the healer catch up momentarily but then you run the risk of not using a steel cyclone for hate generation.

Shield oath is always on. Our extra HP is our balance in that regard and honestly I would rather have an always on mitigation on war but thats just me. The only actual useful aspect of this +hp/+%healing aspect on warriors is when a scholar uses Adloquium and then deployment tactics from a warrior in defiance. Lets see... Extra mitigation every hit including tank busters orrr..... Extra shielding % for a deployment tactic... I think most people would choose the mitigation...

[whiskeybravo]

Your agruement is for staying in one stance, our argument is to utilize both to their maximum effect.

What argument was that again? I thought I was just posting a sarcastic comment lol

The current situation actually encourages people to stay only in one stance.

This is actually what I was being sarcastic about, because I feel like all most Warrior want to do is stay in deliverance. I agree with the OP, and have expressed similar sentiment elsewhere, about how good defiance feels now. Better than ever. So I think it's a shame that so much discussion revolves around dps-stance tanking and how gimped war is since it's no longer free to swap stances.

[Mycow8me]

about how good defiance feels now. Better than ever. So I think it's a shame that so much discussion revolves around dps-stance tanking and how gimped war is since it's no longer free to swap stances.

Maybe its because defiance is actually worse than ever? Defiance has unchained which gets rid of the 20% damage loss for a small duration that doesn't help us tank at all vs its Deliverance counterpart has a ginormous DPS increase from inner release for fel cleave spam. We lost bloodbath so our ability to Main tank with defiance is that much lower now, this is why I have been arguing that Unchained needs to be replaced with a Tank ability instead of a DPS increase... Unchained needs to be the warrior version of bloodbath with its own quirk.

Honestly most of our mitigation skills aside from inner beast are all usable while in deliverance, the only skill thats not is unchained and steelcyclone and both are dps skills. Ironic much. Unchained could be the turning point for defiance to me but its current state is just derp.

[whiskeybravo]

We lost bloodbath so our ability to Main tank with defiance is that much lower now

Be honest. How many times were you actually in Defiance with Bloodbath+Vengeance+OP Spam? It was better support for tanking in Deliverance. I mean, I miss seeing all those return heals as much as the next warrior, but lets be real, most warriors want to tank in Deliverance full time - regardless of any benefit from Defiance. Remember, Lord Warrior Xenosys himself said, "if you're tanking in Defiance you're doing it wrong"

I can't argue that Unchained shouldn't be changed, especially considering we do have a dedicated dps stance now. It's rather obvious they wanted to mimic the defiance skill branching, nothing inherently wrong with that, but with so many other things changed it's a wonder they didn't think to rework unchained in the process. More like Unchanged

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Find one person who never used both stances in HW.

I wasn't aware using Unchained+Overpower into Deliverance for the entire fight constituted not ignoring Defiance. To be completely frank, Defiance was the least used tank stance even while MTing. People could easily ignore it thanks to their threat combo also being the higher overall dps. WAR MT in HW was mind numbing, even more so than PLD.