With all the negativity around war let's talk about the best part of 4.0!

[Tegernako]

I wasn't aware using Unchained+Overpower into Deliverance for the entire fight constituted not ignoring Defiance. To be completely frank, Defiance was the least used tank stance even while MTing. People could easily ignore it thanks to their threat combo also being the higher overall dps. WAR MT in HW was mind numbing, even more so than PLD.

Except even you admitted people barely used BB.

My point here is that in 3.0 Defiance was BAD. Warrior was the squishiest tank and had mediocre levels of mitigation compared to pld. Furthermore you couldn't use any of your wrath abilities because doing so meant you had to either pop infuriate or be entirely sure you don't need any of the wrath moves. Unchained also costing us all our wrath stacks meant that we, yet again, had to sacrifice our defensive abilities to deal damage. This is no longer the case, this is a HUGE deal. We can actually use our abilities freely in defiance. That was not the case before.

LOL people argued WAR was to GOOD at mitigation in HW which was a big reason why it could tank so much better in deliverance.

It can't be both things.

Furthermore... Stuff like Bloodbath did nothing to stop spike damage, which is the only thing you're really worried about as an MT cause if you're dying to the 8-12k autos the boss is smacking you with your healers are complete garbage.

No amount of CD's can help against bad healers for any class.

Yes it helped smooth out AoE damage, yes it helped top you off as an OT, but those are not things that are relevant to Defiance in my opinion. People complaining about Bloodbath being lost probably primarily played War in 4 mans, where the loss is actually felt.

No.

Just going to touch on these two directly as my final point. Deliverance is completely mindless.

Both defiance and deliverance are mindless. It's just slightly harder in deliverance because you have to plan with inner beast.

You spam path and keep up eye cause war has been resigned to the Fell Meme class. Using Onslaught delays a fell cleave by 1-2 GCDs minimum which means it's a huge dps loss unless you would spend more than 2 gcds getting to the target.

Uh...yea we agree on that.

Build stacks, smash fell cleave. Build stacks, smash fell cleave. You hit 1 combo ad nauseum until Eye is about to fall off then live the dream and hit the button 6 times. It's so boring. The most thought that goes into deliverance at the moment is "Oh, I'm at 80 gauge, I will now use butcher block instead of path as to not overfill" like give me a break lmao.

I didn't say it was rocket science. I talked about this being a problem multiple times. I hate how the class plays now matter the stance. I just take offense to some making crap up about defiance being magically harder and more thoughtful, it's not. You just made that up.

Defiance is now as good as Deliverance. That's the point of my post.

Where did I ever disagree? You'd think I'm on reddit.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Except even you admitted people barely used BB.

As OT, not as MT. As MT BB was king because it generated extreme aggro, was the highest dps combo, and was a DPS gain. Even as OT people would still sneak in BB's here and there provided they wouldn't take hate, but as MT, when the person with threat is yourself? SE->BB all day every day.

[TheFanciestBard]

I didn't say it was rocket science. I talked about this being a problem multiple times. I hate how the class plays now matter the stance. I just take offense to some making crap up about defiance being magically harder and more thoughtful, it's not. You just made that up.

I never said it was harder I said it was more dynamic, more engaging. Being able to freely use your defiance abilities does wonders to make it not feel like a stance where I'm relegated to just pressing weapon skills until a tank buster is coming. This makes it play in a way that's different from previous incarnations. Makes it more in-line with how Deliverance runs.

[Tegernako]

As OT, not as MT. As MT BB was king because it generated extreme aggro, was the highest dps combo, and was a DPS gain. Even as OT people would still sneak in BB's here and there provided they wouldn't take hate, but as MT, when the person with threat is yourself? SE->BB all day every day.

yeah...so exactly what I said lol

I never said it was harder I said it was more dynamic, more engaging. Being able to freely use your defiance abilities does wonders to make it not feel like a stance where I'm relegated to just pressing weapon skills until a tank buster is coming. This makes it play in a way that's different from previous incarnations. Makes it more in-line with how Deliverance runs.

I'm not seeing it at all but this specific topic is really a personal opinion so it's hard to say that you are wrong I guess.

[whiskeybravo]

I'm not seeing it at all but this specific topic is really a personal opinion so it's hard to say that you are wrong I guess.

It is.. In a way. But with the way the beast gauge works compared to building stacks, I dare say you get maybe twice the IB usage as before? And, if you are going to use unchained, it's only 1 SP to restore the BG vs having to spend 7 gcds (or infuriate) to get 5 stacks back.