Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[Felorr]

What it boils down to for is that I am going to use every tool at my disposal to maximize my personal output and help the group as a whole

This 100%.

If you choose to not use your entire kit, that's fine. But trying to convince others why they should is not going to go well when your entire argument is based on "the job is called Tank so that's what you do".

And finally, nobody is calling for tanks to have damage on par with DPS jobs and if they are, they're stupid.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Nice, so we're lazy if we play tanks the way we want to. As long as the tank is top of the enmity list, and as long as he's not getting creamed to the point that healers can't handle it, then all should be well. Any extra, over-the-top, dps should just be considered that - extra. But no, 1 2 3 tanks get insults for doing our jobs the way you don't think we should.

Honestly, I'm so tired of being told to drop grit and use more DA, then be called bad if I don't.

It's because the way that you want to tank is to do less dps for the exact same survivability if a tank doing damage
And yes you are bad if your sitting in grit. It's a fact not a matter of opinion.

[SargentToughie]

Excuse me you filthy peasant DPS player, I am the hero here! Only I can survive that foe. Go stick it with your pointy toys while I keep it occupied and don't forget to thank me for saving your sorry ass. and the healer for saving mine

That's why the Offtank is the first man benched in farmable content to make room for... what, exactly? Another DPS!

Susano, Lakshimi, and all 4 of the Omega Normals can all be done with a single tank, making the offtank role worthless, and having it shifted away for more DPS slots in farm content.

Sure is a fulfilling role, I always feel super valuable whenever I play it.

[Dizzy_Derp]

That's why the Offtank is the first man benched in farmable content to make room for... what, exactly? Another DPS!

Susano, Lakshimi, and all 4 of the Omega Normals can all be done with a single tank, making the offtank role worthless, and having it shifted away for more DPS slots in farm content.

Sure is a fulfilling role, I always feel super valuable whenever I play it.

I mean to be fair that's all up to player skill. There is a really really really good. Have that everyone I hop a pug I'm going to be out dosing at least 1 dps if not more. Having a dps in favor of another tank is irrelevant and in almost every case a worae decesion that takinh 2 good tanks be ause then they can swap around and optimize dps ehich will be more effective than one tank doing less damage to make up for it especially since the vast majority of dps in this hame suck at doing damage.

[shao32]

And yes you are bad if your sitting in grit. It's a fact not a matter of opinion.

a player how dont use all they tool kit is bad, a player how choose stay in tank stance are not, they are helping they party even is not meta with how they team are in comfort and that helps much more as you think, not everyone like speedrun everything.

[SargentToughie]

I mean to be fair that's all up to player skill. There is a really really really good. Have that everyone I hop a pug I'm going to be out dosing at least 1 dps if not more. Having a dps in favor of another tank is irrelevant and in almost every case a worse decision that taking 2 good tanks be cause then they can swap around and optimize dps which will be more effective than one tank doing less damage to make up for it especially since the vast majority of dps in this game suck at doing damage.

(made a few corrections for you, BTW)

Back in Heavensward, I was a Warrior main for the first year of the expansion. I would play with a regular group of friends that were pretty solid at the game. Nothing amazing, we're not crushing savage or anything like that, but we could farm EX primals pretty consistently. Back then, the best way we'd optimize most primal fights would be to figure out how fastest to get me off Warrior and onto Monk, or Dragoon.

I'll admit that I walked into SB as a DPS player that was looking to be impressed by my ex-main role, and be won back to it. I left because it was boring, felt bad to play at a high level, and simply felt like I was there out of an arbitrary necessity as opposed to any actual value or merit that I brought to the team. I had high hopes that with two new DPS roles coming in, and SE promising that "We'll do better balance this time guys, honest!" that I would be ready to dive back in... Needless to say, they basically failed on all accounts.

The OT position (my old jam) is actually more worthless than ever, since you can just brute force tank through Susano and Exdeath, and any DPS can survive the OT mechanic cleave in Lakshimi even without shields. I wonder if any fight outside of Savage will ever actually make the existence of 2 tanks mandatory again. I kinda doubt it, it's been a long time.

[Dizzy_Derp]

(made a few corrections for you,

I can see why you would think so if your playing the player created "OT" role. That would get boring, but the whole MY and OT thing is silly and counter productive. Forcing swaps and sharing the responsibilities of tanking is where your going to find the most fun the most tank dps and the easiest time possible for your healers opening up more healer dps. My thing is yes you can solo tank but why else you? You were lowering your only tanks dps and in turn lowering your healers dps because they are having to heal more. And my argument really goes back to player skill, it doesn't matter if you have 5 dps if your dps isn't good then you are better off with the 2 tanks.
Oh and thanks for the edit, my phones auto correct sucks.

[SargentToughie]

I can see why you would think so if your playing the player created "OT" role. That would get boring, but the whole MY and OT thing is silly and counter productive. Forcing swaps and sharing the responsibilities of tanking is where your going to find the most fun the most tank dps and the easiest time possible for your healers opening up more healer dps. My thing is yes you can solo tank but why else you? You were lowering your only tanks dps and in turn lowering your healers dps because they are having to heal more. And my argument really goes back to player skill, it doesn't matter if you have 5 dps if your dps isn't good then you are better off with the 2 tanks.
Oh and thanks for the edit, my phones auto correct sucks.

I'm totally able to understand that, and there's definitely value in the interplay between the two tanks. But as somebody who's tanked pretty much all the major content in this game I've just kinda... gotten fed up with it. The amount of 'tank and healer DPS' that having a second tank adds in solo-tankable fights is actually dramatically overstated, since most of the fights in this game are so straightforward and scripted that the healers in my group basically didn't see a dip at all in their own damage output, and the only real thing that it forces the other tank to do in the Stormblood era is go without Shirk.

Doing A11S (or all of Creator savage, actually) as a Warrior was probably the most hollow experience I've ever had with this game. I exist to soak a tank buster with the MT, grab 3 adds, and run to the other side of the map once. Twice if DPS sucks. All this while the DRK basically never spends any time in grit, and requires zero dedicated healer attention because the only damage in that entire fight is either Laser X sword, or raidwide. For about 95% of the fight I'm just a DPS that's less useful than a DPS. I did this fight as a Warrior, since it was mandatory for like 1 or 2 parts, but the root of the issue remains the same.

Sure, having a 2nd tank does matter in most content. It's mandatory in the highest difficulties, but it doesn't change the fact that it's simply unfulfilling, not to mention thankless.

[Odstarva]

And yes you are bad if your sitting in grit. It's a fact not a matter of opinion.

I can only assume people talking about dropping tank stance in EX encounters have been doing it with static groups, whose dps never make mistakes and thus have healers ready to get you back to 100%. But then, how bad would those DPS have to be that you wouldn't lose aggro by staying in dps stance throughout?

Or would you spam your aggro combo while in dps stance in perpetuity.
In which case, isn't it better to be in tank stance and instead use the dps rotation? Without losing any enmity? Would also let your healers dps (which I'm sure can pull in far greater numbers).


I've tried and I really don't understand how any one tank can maintain a dps rotation, while in dps stance, and not lose aggro to a competent team.

[ChenDynasty]

How to solve DPS queues for dummies.

Castrate the tank community and enforce poor play/an outdated playstyle/an unrewarding design that only appeals to an even minor minority in the already small tank population.

Excuse me you filthy peasant tank player, I am the hero here! Only MY damage should matter. You should be the good little dog you are and sit there with your shield up so I can have fun being the great hero. Oh but healers are cool. Tanks should be tanking as well so that HEALers can DPS. Ecks Dee.

Did you just assume my tank class uses a shield?