Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[Kuwagami]

Sounds like you should start by finding a competent team to try it with.

heh, don't say that too much. We aren't allowed to criticize DPS roles for being sub-par (to say the least). Be it for direct trash performances, or for not using the tools at their disposal to help the group

[Dizzy_Derp]

That's why the Offtank is the first man benched in farmable content to make room for... what, exactly? Another DPS!

Susano, Lakshimi, and all 4 of the Omega Normals can all be done with a single tank, making the offtank role worthless, and having it shifted away for more DPS slots in farm content.

Sure is a fulfilling role, I always feel super valuable whenever I play it.

I mean to be fair that's all up to player skill. There is a really really really good. Have that everyone I hop a pug I'm going to be out dosing at least 1 dps if not more. Having a dps in favor of another tank is irrelevant and in almost every case a worae decesion that takinh 2 good tanks be ause then they can swap around and optimize dps ehich will be more effective than one tank doing less damage to make up for it especially since the vast majority of dps in this hame suck at doing damage.

[SargentToughie]

I mean to be fair that's all up to player skill. There is a really really really good. Have that everyone I hop a pug I'm going to be out dosing at least 1 dps if not more. Having a dps in favor of another tank is irrelevant and in almost every case a worse decision that taking 2 good tanks be cause then they can swap around and optimize dps which will be more effective than one tank doing less damage to make up for it especially since the vast majority of dps in this game suck at doing damage.

(made a few corrections for you, BTW)

Back in Heavensward, I was a Warrior main for the first year of the expansion. I would play with a regular group of friends that were pretty solid at the game. Nothing amazing, we're not crushing savage or anything like that, but we could farm EX primals pretty consistently. Back then, the best way we'd optimize most primal fights would be to figure out how fastest to get me off Warrior and onto Monk, or Dragoon.

I'll admit that I walked into SB as a DPS player that was looking to be impressed by my ex-main role, and be won back to it. I left because it was boring, felt bad to play at a high level, and simply felt like I was there out of an arbitrary necessity as opposed to any actual value or merit that I brought to the team. I had high hopes that with two new DPS roles coming in, and SE promising that "We'll do better balance this time guys, honest!" that I would be ready to dive back in... Needless to say, they basically failed on all accounts.

The OT position (my old jam) is actually more worthless than ever, since you can just brute force tank through Susano and Exdeath, and any DPS can survive the OT mechanic cleave in Lakshimi even without shields. I wonder if any fight outside of Savage will ever actually make the existence of 2 tanks mandatory again. I kinda doubt it, it's been a long time.

[Dizzy_Derp]

(made a few corrections for you,

I can see why you would think so if your playing the player created "OT" role. That would get boring, but the whole MY and OT thing is silly and counter productive. Forcing swaps and sharing the responsibilities of tanking is where your going to find the most fun the most tank dps and the easiest time possible for your healers opening up more healer dps. My thing is yes you can solo tank but why else you? You were lowering your only tanks dps and in turn lowering your healers dps because they are having to heal more. And my argument really goes back to player skill, it doesn't matter if you have 5 dps if your dps isn't good then you are better off with the 2 tanks.
Oh and thanks for the edit, my phones auto correct sucks.

[SargentToughie]

I can see why you would think so if your playing the player created "OT" role. That would get boring, but the whole MY and OT thing is silly and counter productive. Forcing swaps and sharing the responsibilities of tanking is where your going to find the most fun the most tank dps and the easiest time possible for your healers opening up more healer dps. My thing is yes you can solo tank but why else you? You were lowering your only tanks dps and in turn lowering your healers dps because they are having to heal more. And my argument really goes back to player skill, it doesn't matter if you have 5 dps if your dps isn't good then you are better off with the 2 tanks.
Oh and thanks for the edit, my phones auto correct sucks.

I'm totally able to understand that, and there's definitely value in the interplay between the two tanks. But as somebody who's tanked pretty much all the major content in this game I've just kinda... gotten fed up with it. The amount of 'tank and healer DPS' that having a second tank adds in solo-tankable fights is actually dramatically overstated, since most of the fights in this game are so straightforward and scripted that the healers in my group basically didn't see a dip at all in their own damage output, and the only real thing that it forces the other tank to do in the Stormblood era is go without Shirk.

Doing A11S (or all of Creator savage, actually) as a Warrior was probably the most hollow experience I've ever had with this game. I exist to soak a tank buster with the MT, grab 3 adds, and run to the other side of the map once. Twice if DPS sucks. All this while the DRK basically never spends any time in grit, and requires zero dedicated healer attention because the only damage in that entire fight is either Laser X sword, or raidwide. For about 95% of the fight I'm just a DPS that's less useful than a DPS. I did this fight as a Warrior, since it was mandatory for like 1 or 2 parts, but the root of the issue remains the same.

Sure, having a 2nd tank does matter in most content. It's mandatory in the highest difficulties, but it doesn't change the fact that it's simply unfulfilling, not to mention thankless.

[Odstarva]

I'll have to see a dark knight doing it so I can learn from them then. By myself, as much as I imagine it, I can only see it going wrong.

Maybe it's time I try to find some videos of this happening, I don't want to keep hammering on an idea that may be just wrong - though I am still reluctant to believe it is that easy.

[YitharV2]

as it's become quite irksome to see this somewhat popular DPS mindset of "I shouldn't be expected to use Diversion whatsoever! The Tank should just play better!"

Yeah, someone commented this on a post just asking DPS to use Diversion to help speed up runs. It's kind of sad how high it got upvoted. He's not wrong that Diversion won't help bad tanks, but he's ignoring the fact that it will help good tanks and speed up the dungeon run. Context is important.

[Dizzy_Derp]

I can only assume people talking about dropping tank stance in EX encounters have been doing it with static groups, whose dps never make mistakes and thus have healers ready to get you back to 100%. But then, how bad would those DPS have to be that you wouldnt lose aggro by staying in dps stance throughout?Or would you spam your aggro combo while in dps stance in perpetuity.
In which case, isnt it better to be in tank stance and instead use the dps rotation? Without losing any enmity?

You cant, Not on yor own. Shirk is the most useful tank skill in the game for that very reason, it eables you to never even have to do another aggro combo or be in tank stance past the first 4 gcds of an encounter. Things like shade walker, diversion and lucid dreaming also come into play.

[Dizzy_Derp]

So, your healers don't get to dps at all during a fight like susano, I'd imagine. I mean, even with tank stance and cooldowns -it hurts-.
Are you sure your dps is worth more than that of the healers? By any measure?
Sure, I can maintain enmity generation but then I won't be able to roll my dps rotation. And I can say good-night to the blackest night (arguably my best mitigation ability) without a means to recover mp, if I'm stuck in enmity rotation.

I mean you need to rep your healers if they cant get any dps in a fight, especially susano. both of mine are well over a thousand and we do 1 aggro combo drop tank stance and never look back, wearing full str at that.

[CaedemSanguis]

As a tank, im better dps that maybe 30% dps in duty finder
Full Strength Power !