BLM needs some love and RDM needs a nerf

[Bhearil]

You are factoring a full pyshical group, something that is not the norm. Usually is 2 casters/2 phys and with the tank damage nerf (not even counting pala that is sometimes casting and not using the buff in that case), you could say that is a relatively minor benefit compared with things like trick atack, without mentioning that it requires a good ammount of coordination to get the best of the 4 seconds of 10% damage

[sylvestew]

When and where did I say any of this?

That said you clearly don't understand how the math of things work. The cooldown is irrelevant, the skill will be used and it will result in a dps increase for as many as 6members(the rdm, 3 phy dps, 2 tanks). That dps can be indirectly attributed to the rdm. Because of this blm needs a dps increase. I never once mentioned how this is achieved, I was talking pure theory about balance.

Right now rdm does more damage than any blm without factoring in embolden. If you don't understand the very basic, most trivial elements of balance you really don't have much business contributing to the thread.

I Fully understand balance but you make it seem like RDM's are destroying BLM, which isnt the case and i already said if they lower rdm's dps to take in count embolden people other than you wont even look at that cause its a general buff, they will just look at the rdms dps and just go eww you're doing something wrong. Your theory is perfect world no one contributes their dps to buffs given by other jobs they just go look at the parse and epeen. They dont say oh but i had a brd or ast buff.

[Yorumi]

You are factoring a full pyshical group, something that is not the norm. Usually is 2 casters/2 phys and with the tank damage nerf (not even counting pala that is sometimes casting and not using the buff in that case), you could say that is a relatively minor benefit compared with things like trick atack, without mentioning that it requires a good ammount of coordination to get the best of the 4 seconds of 10% damage

Even if you were to use this setup though embolden still adds a good bit more dps on top of a class that's already beating the other casters, that doesn't make sense.

I Fully understand balance but you make it seem like RDM's are destroying BLM, which isnt the case and i already said id they lower rdm's dps to take in count embolden people other rthan you wont even look at that cause its a general buff and your theory is perfect world

In another thread someone suggested emblden is around a 1.2% dps increase over the raid. I havn't mathed it out exactly but that's probably accurate enough. Using that figure a rdm is contributing around 10-20% more damage than a blm or smn. You can claim you understand balance but clearly you don't. You keep saying you see nothing wrong with a class doing more dps than another and also providing a raid wide damage buff on top of that. No one who understands balance would say that.

[Psycofang]

You talk as if embolden has no CD

Embolden will be up every 2 minutes its diminishing returns is due to the fact it can buff 6 players for 20 straight seconds. Only buff that exceeds it is an rng produced spread - balance.

Its not about raising the ceiling or favoritism its about basic logic from people who think efficiently. Why bring a blm if rdm can produce roughly the same results for less stress, better mobility and greater utility?

Blm dps takes time to actually get better and requires a lot of practice of the when and where and even then theyre never guaranteed everything. RDM, albeit slightly lower dummy dps, will generally beat an equally skilled blm in a practical setting due to less rooting, self buffing, better dps opportunities and utility such as fast raises, addle, dps buffs and etc.

[sylvestew]

See that's where you are wrong, I never said I was ok with a BLM doing less than a RDM. I said a good BLM should always out DPS a good RDM, now if you say we differ on by how much that's fine, then you can throw in Balance, conditions and etc. I also said if thats not the case BLM should get a buff. However I am ok with a good Rdm out DPS'ing a BAD BLM, I dont need a bunch of bad players running around just because they have ok dps. Which is what SE does alot they nerf things to make the bad feel viable.

[Yorumi]

I also said if thats not the case BLM should get a buff. However I am ok with a good Rdm out DPS'ing a BAD BLM, I dont need a bunch of bad players running around just because they have ok dps. Which is what SE does alot they nerf things to make the bad feel viable.

What's the point of even posting that? Like is there anyone in the entire universe that believes good players shouldn't do better than bad players?

[Bhearil]

Blm in fact they do more dps than Rdm, but right now we are on Susano, the Titan fight Stormblood version that forces everyone to do a lot of movement. Its logical that rdm will fare better under such heavy movement fight.

Also, no one is mentioning that Rdm has the worst mp recovery of all casters. If by some reason the rdm is down with lucid dream on cd unless he receives external mp recovery, hes gonna be dry in around 30 seconds. And following that, both heal and revive spells are quite costly mp wise so its not like he can use them too often, even ignoring the dps lose

[sylvestew]

What's the point of even posting that? Like is there anyone in the entire universe that believes good players shouldn't do better than bad players?

That was my original point that i don't think that it will be as bad as everyone think it will be in Omega because both ex's are super movement heavy and blm's that know the fight are on par with rdm's that don't suffer as bad for movement., but if it is the case even in omega and thats how all the fights are gonna be BLM should get a buff. Thats when the whole balance tangent occurred and the whole why wait.

[Psycofang]

Also, no one is mentioning that Rdm has the worst mp recovery of all casters. If by some reason the rdm is down with lucid dream on cd unless he receives external mp recovery, hes gonna be dry in around 30 seconds. And following that, both heal and revive spells are quite costly mp wise so its not like he can use them too often, even ignoring the dps lose

Rdm has the worst mp recovery but thr best mp economy of all the casters. Its spells at 70 cost very little at 14000 mp, LD is up every 2 minutes and restores more than a rdm can possibly lose unless the go full mass raises which shouldnt even happen lately.

Onlu possible way it can bottom out is if they die, LD is on CD and no one makeshifts it. Even then its hardly punished.

[LunarEmerald]

Even as a red mage main, I do think red mage needs a damage nerf. Not a big one, just a small one to ensure they're below black mage and summoner. If red mage does the same damage then there's no reason to take the other two over it because red mage brings more to the raid.

Most survivability. Vercure provides great sustainability when healers are preoccupied.
Most mobility. Half of their casts are instant.
Best rezzer. Even better than the actual healers.
Embolden is the only good caster damage utility buff.

It's totally unfair.