BLM needs some love and RDM needs a nerf

[Psycofang]

I'm not sure why everyone is so focused on potency buffs/nerfs. Rdm has the lowest damage potential of the casters on a dummy parse..

See dummy parses should never be taken seriously beyond perfect scenario situations. RDM ST pps is right up there with BLMs in burst, the thing is RDM is the least affected by movement of the three which means its sustained dps doesnt suffer as much or at all in comparison.

Dummy parses =/= practical application. Movement, phase changes etc can drop the damage of those who have tightly required systems or required rooting. Something rdm does not suffer from.

[Symon17]

See dummy parses should never be taken seriously beyond perfect scenario situations. RDM ST pps is right up there with BLMs in burst, the thing is RDM is the least affected by movement of the three which means its sustained dps doesnt suffer as much or at all in comparison.

Dummy parses =/= practical application. Movement, phase changes etc can drop the damage of those who have tightly required systems or required rooting. Something rdm does not suffer from.

I agree that parses aren't the end-all-be-all, and practical fights should definitely be taken into account when balancing. That's why I stand behind adjusting the classes in a way that better allows them to reach their potential in real situations. I also think we need to consider long term when making decisions. A class with a simpler rotation will hit its peak much faster.

Classes like BLM and SMN will take a bit more time to see players reaching those higher numbers, but it doesn't mean that day won't come. Buffing and nerfing potencies now just means that once people master fights with the new BLM and SMN, their numbers will be through the roof, and RDM will have an unfairly low potential by comparison.

[EllieShadeflare]

I think people are trying to be burst-potency nuts, when each job has different purposes in terms of damage.

BLM is the SAM of the casters, hitting the hardest per cast and having no true need for build up. It's a very "selfish" job, with its utility affecting itself, such as the very useful Umbral Hearts allowing three additional Fire IVs in our rotation, just like Convert does, but another one. Its rotation in fact became easier in Stormblood!

SMN is the DRG, decent damage, but a long, very easily and harshly punished build up into a big pile of "bugger off," where at the highest levels of gameplay and higher skilled players, is far greater than what anyone else had to offer.

RDM... is the MNK and MCH's drunken one night stand baby that turned into a successful business person. It uses massive bursts in small amounts of time, something done by using Dualcast, but needs RNG to get its full potential.If it dies, it loses much of its build up, but it can easily get it back.

[Psycofang]

The best way to fix blm is to literally just lower the CDs on triple and leylines. That will artificially but effectively increase their relative and practical pps in a real scenario.

SMN? Dunno how to fix that and potency buffs doesnt fix how ruthless them missing an aetherflow ability is or popping baha too late/soon.

Its hard to not train wreck that job.

[ZeroAmano]

The best way to fix blm is to literally just lower the CDs on triple and leylines. That will artificially but effectively increase their relative and practical pps in a real scenario.
SMN? Dunno how to fix that and potency buffs doesnt fix how ruthless them missing an aetherflow ability is or popping baha too late/soon.
Its hard to not train wreck that job.

If they are not going to put BLM Fire4/Bliz4 pot back as it where should be then lower the CDs on leylines is a good thing to do or extend the duration is a good way too.
since we have between the lines but when you dodge AoE and teleport back then realize the time is going off quickly

[Kaedan]

Umm... BLM isn't "supposed to be" close to any Melee DPS in damage. The heirarchy goes:

Melee DPS = King of damage
Caster DPS = Queen of damage
Ranged DPS = Joker of damage

This is due to required positioning, distance and skill/spell times.

Now, I haven't tested it, but if BLM is doing significantly less damage than RDM, then they should be buffed to RDM levels, yes. But BLM should most definitely not be at SAM levels.

[Symon17]

Umm... BLM isn't "supposed to be" close to any Melee DPS in damage. The heirarchy goes:

Melee DPS = King of damage
Caster DPS = Queen of damage
Ranged DPS = Joker of damage

This is due to required positioning, distance and skill/spell times.

Now, I haven't tested it, but if BLM is doing significantly less damage than RDM, then they should be buffed to RDM levels, yes. But BLM should most definitely not be at SAM levels.

It seems like Square Enix disagrees. BLM has the second highest damage potential in the game and is expected to output numbers comparable to SAM. It was like that in 3.X too, only with BLM~MNK.

[Psycofang]

You... don't understand how Astral Fire works, do you? And I'm guessing you never use Thundercloud?

481potency per (at current) 2.73s vs 270+300 in 1.87s + recast.

Thunder 3 is 340 in 24s vs fleche is 420 per 25s
-Thundercloud procs are random and should never be applied to static numbers otherwise we have to start using luck in metric measurements.
But anyway 340+340 (at + 24s) so long as tc proc has time to run its course its 720p

Corte is 300 per 45s

420+300 is 720p

RDM can match a thunder cloud proc at optimal usage every 50 seconds.

Only thing RDM doesnt have a true answer for is foul (685p) vs RDMs holy/flare(550-605p (buffed)) not counting the full buffed and unbuffed combo with fleche and corte weaved.

Foul literally carries blm static dps but its still falling behind due to lack of avaliable speed.

[EllieShadeflare]

snip

I'll address each point.

491potency per (at current) 2.73s vs 270+300 in 1.87s + recast.

When you put it like that, sure, it looks impressive for RDM, but remember, we get two casts every time you recast, due to it being a slight wait, as you trade consistency + mechanics for build up and big bursts. Black Mages can have a second Fire IV on the way, whilst Red Mages still wait to complete their spell.

Thunder 3 is 340 in 24s vs fleche is 420 per 25s
-Thundercloud procs are random and should never be applied to static numbers otherwise we have to start using luck in metric measurements.
But anyway 340+340 (at + 24s) so long as tc proc has time to run its course its 720p
Corte is 300 per 45s

420+300 is 720p

RDM can match a thunder cloud proc at optimal usage every 50 seconds.

Okay, but your number for Thundercloud is entirely off, so that disqualifies your entire argument. The initial potency of Thunder III is 70. And tics occur every 3 seconds, causing a whopping 320 potency, so it's actually 390 potency when it proc's. 409.5 after you apply Enochian (which why aren't you?). While the proc chance is random, at 10% per tic, it's still a rather high chance, plus anyone worth their salt launches Thunder III using Sharpcast, for a confirmed Thundercloud, especially now that the Fire sharpcast meta is gone. This makes this more like 1139 (after both Thunderclouds, plus the second effect's full dot) instead of 720 like you claim.

Only thing RDM doesnt have a true answer for is foul (685p) vs RDMs holy/flare(550-605p (buffed)) not counting the full buffed and unbuffed combo with fleche and corte weaved.

Foul being an AoE and a 30s cooldown, versus that massive burst combo that Red Mage gets. Again, you get big tantrums of burst, versus the consistent death that BLM brings.

Foul literally carries blm static dps but its still falling behind due to lack of avaliable speed

BLM is just a consistent caster, but equally equipped RDMs and BLMs will make the same DPS, because of the RDM's tantrums and BLM's consistency.

SMNs are somehow more consistent than Black Mages, but also more tantrummy than RDM, so they still have good potential too.

[Psycofang]

240 potency. If you think RDM playstyle is fine now, then you cannot change the proc rate of Stone/Fire since then it would slow way down between burst phases. Don't forget BLM also has a constant 5% magic damage buff, if we speak purely in terms of potency, the two Fire 4's fired off in the same time as Jolt 2 and Aero/Thunder ends up at 546, slightly ahead of RDM.

Even if we dont use verfire/aero (270p)

But jolt 2 instead is still 240+300 on a bad streak is still 540p which is stronger than 1 f4 and casted under the time it takes to cast a fire 4..