Reason tank DPS stat was changed to STR

[Kyt]

I think you and other tanks are not seeing the whole picture. If raiding under the previous raid and expansion mentality, yes; DPS will outclass tanks in damage:enmity scaling.

Enmity is nothing right now with shirk. If me and my static offtank (even in full VIT gear) are voke-shirking each other, no one is going to catch up to us. Not even the highest dps melee you can find who isn't using enmity reduction. Can dps use enmity reduction? Sure. Will it be worthwhile? Probably not in Savage. As it stands (and I am using str accessories currently because neither EX primal needs more than 38k hp right now anyway) I literally never lose threat on anything, and I gain a solid 700 dps. Win win for me.

[Jonnycbad]

Enmity is nothing right now with shirk. If me and my static offtank (even in full VIT gear) are voke-shirking each other, no one is going to catch up to us. Not even the highest dps melee you can find who isn't using enmity reduction. Can dps use enmity reduction? Sure. Will it be worthwhile? Probably not in Savage. As it stands (and I am using str accessories currently because neither EX primal needs more than 38k hp right now anyway) I literally never lose threat on anything, and I gain a solid 700 dps. Win win for me.

More power to you, then. I agree with you. But there are people like the guy I quoted in my last past, who think that as DPS jobs get more STR and tanks get less that our damage in relation to DPS damage will not increase. To me, that's fine. We are tanks not DPS, and raid balance is calculated based on DPS damage output and main tanks' DPS output in VIT gear using Enmity combos with gear that's 15% weaker than the minimum ilvl, to account for non optimal rotations, mistakes, some deaths, etc.

So anything extra, like STR accessories, and DPS stance dancing is icing really, and only necessary for speed-clears and world firsts, or trying to beat with minimum iLVL (which SE does not advise but say is technically possible).

[Kyt]

snip

Raids definitely take into account tank dps. Is it a lower check than actual dps classes? Of course. But if you literally just stood there for an entire encounter and did no dps vs a boss that is current progression and has a super tight dps check, you will definitely not kill the boss. Wanting to make the most out of your character is a good thing. The more damage anyone does = the less time the raid has to fight the boss, which is the most important thing.

[Alpha087]

Okay so put STR on tank accessories. Problem solved, right?

[Lewtskie]

This is the correct answer!

I like to think the three comms I got from a 61 dgn run as MNK was because I had been using such tools to help the poor WAR coming in fresh to the expac, lol. I was in the same position as she was in so I understood completely and made sure to use Diversion before my opener, sadly I could do nothing about the RDM nuking things to hell.

The issue is if your game started with these tools and set in stone their use for every dps and not just the nukers, then it would be a non issue. But sadly with such a strong shift in the paradigm unless Yoshi comes out in a LL screaming for DPS to use them and slapping big bold red letters all over the patch notes people will stay almost completely unawares.

[Jonnycbad]

Raids definitely take into account tank dps. Is it a lower check than actual dps classes? Of course. But if you literally just stood there for an entire encounter and did no dps vs a boss that is current progression and has a super tight dps check, you will definitely not kill the boss. Wanting to make the most out of your character is a good thing. The more damage anyone does = the less time the raid has to fight the boss, which is the most important thing.

Yoshi literally said that raid encounter boss HP is based on the damage dealt by: DPS in their normal rotation at MINIMUM iLVL and tank in tank stance using enmity combo. Then they subtract 15%. Healer DPS and main tank stance dancing or using DPS combo are not factored in.

[Kyt]

Yoshi literally said that raid encounter boss HP is based on the damage dealt by: DPS in their normal rotation at MINIMUM iLVL and tank in tank stance using enmity combo. Then they subtract 15%. Healer DPS and main tank stance dancing or using DPS combo are not factored in.

Regardless how the encounter is tuned, encounters that are based on dps will ALWAYS benefit tanks who, after covering the amount of HP they need, prioritize dps. More dps = boss dies faster, period. Regardless of what Yoshi says, that is absolute fact.

[Dregenfox]

Regardless how the encounter is tuned, encounters that are based on dps will ALWAYS benefit tanks who, after covering the amount of HP they need, prioritize dps. More dps = boss dies faster, period. Regardless of what Yoshi says, that is absolute fact.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. If they balanced healers to have higher dps and nerfed healing slightly then the raid DPS will gain if the healer spends more time dps'ing over having to spam heals on a DPS-stance tank.

Same if they gave vitality some sort of healing bonus so it made healer's job easier. Or they could make aggro a lot harder to hold, but then add a threat modifier to every point of vitality.

That probably won't happen though because that kind of stuff would essentially be a nerf and would never go over well with players.

The content, rotations, and mechanics in this game are easy, so the only real way to put in a challenge is to put in DPS checks.

[Tila]

It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. If they balanced healers to have higher dps and nerfed healing slightly then the raid DPS will gain if the healer spends more time dps'ing over having to spam heals on a DPS-stance tank.

Same if they gave vitality some sort of healing bonus so it made healer's job easier. Or they could make aggro a lot harder to hold, but then add a threat modifier to every point of vitality.

That probably won't happen though because that kind of stuff would essentially be a nerf and would never go over well with players.

The content, rotations, and mechanics in this game are easy, so the only real way to put in a challenge is to put in DPS checks.

If tanks cant DPS, they can't solo as well. Another reason Tank DPS can't be hit too hard. Even if healers could DPS easier, it would mean that tanks would still want to DPS. You're example, holds no weight. Healer healing less = Tank can also focus on DPS more.

[Dregenfox]

If tanks cant DPS, they can't solo as well. Another reason Tank DPS can't be hit too hard. Even if healers could DPS easier, it would mean that tanks would still want to DPS. You're example, holds no weight. Healer healing less = Tank can also focus on DPS more.

Your reply makes no sense. Where did I say anything about nerfing tank's DPS?

In 3.0 most healers contributed the lowest amount of damage while the best warriors could almost match a DPS role. That's why it was more efficient for a healer to just spam more heals on a full-offense warrior rather than going for dps himself.

If they increased the DPS that healers are able to contribute, that would give the tradeoff of a defensive tank vs an offensive tank more weight. A super-defensive, low damage 3.0 paladin would have value because they would need less heals, enabling more DPS time for buffed healers.