Reason tank DPS stat was changed to STR

[Jonnycbad]

End-game HW accessories at i270 aren't job-locked - the attack power gains from using those accessories far outweigh the attack power gains from STR-melded level 70 VIT accessories. That's why the older gear is being used; SB accessories from level 60 to 70 are job-locked, so there's no risk of logging in and finding gear unequipped.

People seem to forget that VIT/STR scaling was a nerf to STR tank DPS output. We've been brought full circle to an old problem that'd been taken care, together with the added problem of tank damage scaling (and therefore aggro generation) being outclassed by dedicated DPS gains on damage as gear progresses from here through the upcoming patch cycles.

I think you and other tanks are not seeing the whole picture. If raiding under the previous raid and expansion mentality, yes; DPS will outclass tanks in damage:enmity scaling. However, people are sadly seeing SB raiding with the same lens and strategy as ARR and HW raiding: that DPS (except for BLM/SMN/BRD) can mostly get by without using enmity shedding skills like Quelling Strikes, or in this case: Diversion). For SB, it seems like SE wants DPS to manage their own enmity with Diversion. Hell in DRG's 70 Job Class Quest, you literally cannot win unless you use Elusive Jump (or Diversion) to give enmity back to Estinien. The dragon hits you with a massive vuln up, basically telling you "hey watch your enmity, buddy". Sadly, 99% of DPS I have rolled with so far refuse to use Diversion because they don't think it's useful (most DPS aren't setting Goad either, even as I deplete all my TP on Total Eclipse). It's a mentality of not wanting to change or adapt playstyles. There's nothing wrong with enmity, if DPS use Diversion. Hell, NIN can use Smokescreen/Shadewalker to help too if they're in the group. Problem is, DPS want to tunnel vision their deeps and if they gain hate, it's the tanks fault. SE is trying to have a shift responsibility of enmity from being a tank-centric management to now also being a thing DPS need to manage. DPS need to be more wary of enmity and none of this 'set it and forget it' mentality that we're used from ARR and HW.

[HELLruler]

SE is trying to have a shift responsibility of enmity from being a tank-centric management to now also being a thing DPS need to manage. DPS need to be more wary of enmity and none of this 'set it and forget it' mentality that we're used from ARR and HW.

This is the correct answer! But there's a problem: DPS classes are totally out of tune. Some classes, especially the new ones, generate way too much aggro even with Diversion because they are OP. It's surprising how fast SAM can build aggro while all the other DPS are so far behind

[Lewtskie]

This is the correct answer!

I like to think the three comms I got from a 61 dgn run as MNK was because I had been using such tools to help the poor WAR coming in fresh to the expac, lol. I was in the same position as she was in so I understood completely and made sure to use Diversion before my opener, sadly I could do nothing about the RDM nuking things to hell.

The issue is if your game started with these tools and set in stone their use for every dps and not just the nukers, then it would be a non issue. But sadly with such a strong shift in the paradigm unless Yoshi comes out in a LL screaming for DPS to use them and slapping big bold red letters all over the patch notes people will stay almost completely unawares.

[bswpayton]

I like to think the three comms I got from a 61 dgn run as MNK was because I had been using such tools to help the poor WAR coming in fresh to the expac, lol. I was in the same position as she was in so I understood completely and made sure to use Diversion before my opener, sadly I could do nothing about the RDM nuking things to hell.

The issue is if your game started with these tools and set in stone their use for every dps and not just the nukers, then it would be a non issue. But sadly with such a strong shift in the paradigm unless Yoshi comes out in a LL screaming for DPS to use them and slapping big bold red letters all over the patch notes people will stay almost completely unawares.

I kinda feel like its best to not use them in basic content to kinda keep a tank aware that they need to hold argo maybe thats just me tho.

[Lewtskie]

I kinda feel like its best to not use them in basic content to kinda keep a tank aware that they need to hold argo maybe thats just me tho.

You won't have it up for every trash pull and it only just keeps your aggro in check for a small time, the reliability is only keeping you in check during large mob burns and openers when you're typically popping everything to maximize output in such a short window. Even if you have used it during a normal pull, if the tank were not maintaining their enmity then they would still easily lose aggro. It's just a minor tool used to keep things going steady, nothing that amazing.

[Kyt]

I think you and other tanks are not seeing the whole picture. If raiding under the previous raid and expansion mentality, yes; DPS will outclass tanks in damage:enmity scaling.

Enmity is nothing right now with shirk. If me and my static offtank (even in full VIT gear) are voke-shirking each other, no one is going to catch up to us. Not even the highest dps melee you can find who isn't using enmity reduction. Can dps use enmity reduction? Sure. Will it be worthwhile? Probably not in Savage. As it stands (and I am using str accessories currently because neither EX primal needs more than 38k hp right now anyway) I literally never lose threat on anything, and I gain a solid 700 dps. Win win for me.

[Jonnycbad]

Enmity is nothing right now with shirk. If me and my static offtank (even in full VIT gear) are voke-shirking each other, no one is going to catch up to us. Not even the highest dps melee you can find who isn't using enmity reduction. Can dps use enmity reduction? Sure. Will it be worthwhile? Probably not in Savage. As it stands (and I am using str accessories currently because neither EX primal needs more than 38k hp right now anyway) I literally never lose threat on anything, and I gain a solid 700 dps. Win win for me.

More power to you, then. I agree with you. But there are people like the guy I quoted in my last past, who think that as DPS jobs get more STR and tanks get less that our damage in relation to DPS damage will not increase. To me, that's fine. We are tanks not DPS, and raid balance is calculated based on DPS damage output and main tanks' DPS output in VIT gear using Enmity combos with gear that's 15% weaker than the minimum ilvl, to account for non optimal rotations, mistakes, some deaths, etc.

So anything extra, like STR accessories, and DPS stance dancing is icing really, and only necessary for speed-clears and world firsts, or trying to beat with minimum iLVL (which SE does not advise but say is technically possible).

[Kyt]

snip

Raids definitely take into account tank dps. Is it a lower check than actual dps classes? Of course. But if you literally just stood there for an entire encounter and did no dps vs a boss that is current progression and has a super tight dps check, you will definitely not kill the boss. Wanting to make the most out of your character is a good thing. The more damage anyone does = the less time the raid has to fight the boss, which is the most important thing.

[Jonnycbad]

Raids definitely take into account tank dps. Is it a lower check than actual dps classes? Of course. But if you literally just stood there for an entire encounter and did no dps vs a boss that is current progression and has a super tight dps check, you will definitely not kill the boss. Wanting to make the most out of your character is a good thing. The more damage anyone does = the less time the raid has to fight the boss, which is the most important thing.

Yoshi literally said that raid encounter boss HP is based on the damage dealt by: DPS in their normal rotation at MINIMUM iLVL and tank in tank stance using enmity combo. Then they subtract 15%. Healer DPS and main tank stance dancing or using DPS combo are not factored in.

[Kyt]

Yoshi literally said that raid encounter boss HP is based on the damage dealt by: DPS in their normal rotation at MINIMUM iLVL and tank in tank stance using enmity combo. Then they subtract 15%. Healer DPS and main tank stance dancing or using DPS combo are not factored in.

Regardless how the encounter is tuned, encounters that are based on dps will ALWAYS benefit tanks who, after covering the amount of HP they need, prioritize dps. More dps = boss dies faster, period. Regardless of what Yoshi says, that is absolute fact.