Put VIT back in Tank Damage Calculation.

[Yurihyuga]

FIght or flight +Shield lob + Spirits within + Circle of scorn on pull, followed rage of Halone combo, followed by goring blade combo, followed by Reprisal to mitigate Assail and after that Requiescat + Holy spirit until out of mana, Goring blade, and royal authority combo. Doing this at the start of Susano EX I have never lost aggro. To be honest I remember when A1s was new someone told me if I didn't have STR accessories on he was gonna "Rip the aggro right off me". I just laughed at him and continued to wear my VIT accessories. Needless to say he never pulled aggro off of me in Faust or the encounter after. If you're losing aggro you need to stop dpsing and focus on your threat combo. Fact is if you're losing aggro you're probably trying too hard to DPS.

Start of pull - tomahawk - line up and overpower x3 - equilibrium if its up - rotate BB lost one mob already sometimes - provoke - overpower - quickly try and get 50 gauge to berserk if its up+cyclone x2 - usually by that point agro is stabilised. Ex fights I don't have a problem cause single target agro is easy its just stressful in dungeons atm. Although I hear holding agro as PLD is much easier than War and Drk atm.

[cporter]

Ex fights I don't have a problem cause single target agro is easy its just stressful in dungeons atm.

Oh well I have to agree that in dungeons we're pretty much there to soak aggro but here's the thing imo. In a dungeon you can literally pull an entire section from Point A to Point B and grab 8+ mobs in the process. At that point what else do you expect to do besides spam flash and some defensive CDs? Usually, unless the DPS is really undergeared. The 2 dps can handle the mobs and you can just focus on staying alive with the massive amount of mobs you just dragged to Point b. If that's the point you're trying to make the damage on the new PLD skill Total eclipse which is an aoe attack not requiring any sort of combo so can be spammed, does absolutely no damage at all. I dont mind being a sponge in 4 man dungeons though.

[Vhailor]

My analysis of the situation, as a WHM, is that SE created an awkward middle ground for tanks and healers.

The 3.x situation allowed for substantial flexibility for both roles. Tanks could both tank and deal damage, and healers could both heal and deal damage, at virtually all content levels (provided they were reasonably geared / skilled). This generated interest in the jobs for many players, including myself, because we could push ourselves: optimizing damage-dealing while managing our primary role effectively was a near-endless challenge.

The 4.x situation removed this flexibility. Tanks take significant amounts of damage (at least through Castrum Abania; I haven't progressed further yet), which restricts healer flexibility. Their reduced damage also forces tanks to stay in enmity-generation mode most of the time, which reduces their options.

That's not necessarily a bad thing - but SE didn't account for the loss of choice. If enmity generation is supposed to be a heavy focus for tanks, where are the multiple rotations and toolsets built around it to replace the now-semi-useless damage-dealing options? If healing is supposed to be a heavy focus for healers, where are the interesting toolsets beyond cure-spam and standard HoT stuff, toolsets that have some benefit beyond keeping people above 90% HP rather than above 75%?

If SE truly wants to re-cast tanks and healers so they deal less damage and focus more time on their primary role, they need to do a more significant revamp of the skill system to reflect this change. We need to have interesting options that allow for skilled players to continually push their limits when playing these roles. What we can't have is the current f*ck-up, which is friendlier to newer players but insanely boring for others.

[Khemorex]

Start of pull - tomahawk - line up and overpower x3 - equilibrium if its up - rotate BB lost one mob already sometimes - provoke - overpower - quickly try and get 50 gauge to berserk if its up+cyclone x2 - usually by that point agro is stabilised. Ex fights I don't have a problem cause single target agro is easy its just stressful in dungeons atm. Although I hear holding agro as PLD is much easier than War and Drk atm.

i loose a mob sometimes to , but its not like i can slack as pld, after the aoe spam i usually rotate through mobs and check wich one i might loose , and that one i hit with aggro combo.
If i dont alt tab through the mobs , im pretty sure that im gona loose a mob , well unless if id spam flash all the time , but that would be boring :P

If everythin seems ok i switch to dps combo.

edit : it really depends on the opener a dps uses , if they have something good runing at the start of the pull it is not that easy for a pld aswell.

also i think tenacity melds + determination melds and maybe some crits melds also helps with aggro (maby some str on rings :P )^^

buts its not really a problem for me , coz im used to it. coz pld never had good aoe ^^ and its probably gona settle down once the ilvls stabilize.

some edits coz it late XD

[Lilseph]

Agreed, people. Either add STR to the fending accesories or scale our damage with VIT. All of the other classes get their primary stat from accesories, which affects healing and DPS in case of healers and DPS and ability potency on DPS classes. Tanks only get their HP pool increased, but that's it. No DPS increasement, no emnity increasement. Based on what people reported, not even melding STR on their accesories help.

[Khemorex]

Agreed, people. Either add STR to the fending accesories or scale our damage with VIT. All of the other classes get their primary stat from accesories, which affects healing and DPS in case of healers and DPS and ability potency on DPS classes. Tanks only get their HP pool increased, but that's it. No DPS increasement, no emnity increasement. Based on what people reported, not even melding STR on their accesories help.

well my opinion still stands , people need to learn to hold aggro instead of strying to hold aggro with dpsing :P

[AsahinaMyLove]

another nerf... Do SE want the game back to 1.0 or what? They are already on the way since 4.0 >->

[Yahallo]

well my opinion still stands , people need to learn to hold aggro instead of strying to hold aggro with dpsing :P

When you get players that are dealing upwards of 4-5k DPS, it can feel rather pressuring to maintain aggro even without trying to get optimal DPS at the same time.

The problem really is fully here yet, it is just rearing its head. If the status quo can be kept, then we could probably get through this. However, the status quo may not be kept due to how the damage gap will likely enlarge as ilvl increases.

also i think tenacity melds + determination melds and maybe some crits melds also helps with aggro (maby some str on rings :P )^^

Also, unless Tenacity suddenly spikes in scaling at certain break points, it doesn't really look all that enticing of a stat with some really poor scaling.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talk_tenacity/

So right now, it doesn't look like we should be melding tenacity unless it somehow spikes at certain breakpoints. Crit Melds seem to be the post enticing at the moment (like in HW), though we still need more stat weight information until be can be fully sure.

[Ametrine]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the issue that tank players are foreseeing is that since so much emnity generation is built on raw damage output, that despite the bonuses built within tank skill combos and exclusive emnity building moves, there is a high probability that DPS will have their damage outputs so far above and beyond tanks that it simply won't be possible for all but the most synergized teams to keep hate on the right person?

Hmmm.... Wouldn't the inclusion role pools, including the new AOE provoke-like skill and everyone who isn't a tank having an enmity dumping skill sort of account for this kind of scenario?

[MrSmiley]

well my opinion still stands , people need to learn to hold aggro instead of strying to hold aggro with dpsing :P

I just wish they had more interesting ways of holding aggro than 3 buttons you spam and forget the rest aside an occasional defensive cd.

I'm ok with them trying to get us to focus on tanking/healing, but they need to make it interesting.