Why do Archers suck so bad against Ifrit?

[Dargoth_Draconia]

We passed along the concern that archers (and other classes as well) feel like they're unwanted in Ifrit battles and that is something that the dev. team will be working to fix when making the upcoming class balance adjustments.

Thanks Bayohne, glad to see a reply in this thread. To the others I think pretty soon they will get the classes well balanced and where they will probably remain til level cap goes up. I am looking forward to 1.20.

Speaking of class balance adjustments, Yoshida said in a Letter from the Producer in August that the list of changes would be released when 1.19 went live. Any word on why we haven't seen it yet and when it will be released since player feedback was supposed to "help define the direction" the devs take in 1.20?

If I am not mistaken Yoshi-P has been going around doing interviews with fan sites again and that is likely why the forums have been a bit more hush hush with content lately. Unless he has already came back to Japan but as far as I am aware he hasn't.

[Griss]

We passed along the concern that archers (and other classes as well) feel like they're unwanted in Ifrit battles and that is something that the dev. team will be working to fix when making the upcoming class balance adjustments.

bay could you pass along the reason that lancers are the preferred melee on ifrit is mostly due to seer. the range on the pole arm is just long enough for lancers to hit ifrit with little worry about taking damage.

towards the end of the fight players are dancing in a mine field. Now don't take this as a call for seer to be removed from the fight, but try to get the message across to the team that high damage close range aoe moves are almost always at the top of the list of why x melee class is preferred for a given fight over y&z. this has very little to do with skill balancing.

Mater of fact i can with out any hesitation say, that if there was not a perceived lack of damage coming from archer right now it would be the #1 meta game pick to the point of excluding all other dd choices for the fight again.

[Richard_BG]

Archers wouldn't suck so bad at ifrit if there wasn't animation lock. All of the other damage classes can move while auto attacking and since Archer's Light Shot is not considered an Auto Attack they get animation lock. I'm willing to bet that even though Archers got a heavy nerf, they'd be able to keep up with at least MRD if not higher on a pure tank n' spank fight.

Ofc the animation lock wont be fixed until 2.0 with the new engine anyways so this is all irrelevant up until then.

[Exni]

Mater of fact i can with out any hesitation say, that if there was not a perceived lack of damage coming from archer right now it would be the #1 meta game pick to the point of excluding all other dd choices for the fight again.

It's definetly more than just a "perceived" lack of damage. The class has been essentially broken by 1.19, it's not just the Ifrit fight. Archer would still be glossed over as it stands now, as it falls wayyy below the other classes in TP generation, animation lock, and general dps. It got nerf'd all over the place, check out some of the ARC forums for more details on all its ninja nerfs.

[Xenor]

ARC is so bad I've yet to even upgrade my bow. Still rocking a verdant shortbow. With full out materiaed gear it wouldn't be too bad but MRD and LNC do crazy damage this patch.

Animation lock is the biggest reason ARC sucks against Ifrit. If this isn't reason enough to give ARC auto attack then I don't know what is. It should never have been excluded in the first place.

[Kyra]

Yeah the class got ruined, dont even enjoy playing archer any more. Now its maurauders and lancers turn to be over powered. multishot got so nerfed last patch its not even worth using now, gives 500tp for 1 2 or 3 nocked arrows (doesnt matter) Barrage is a bit stornger but getting to 1500 tp before a mobs dead is almost fking impossible. Widevolley is still nice but its nothing compared to marauders AoE.

Yeah and now multishot is practicaly useless unless your soloing they may as well give us auto attack on the bow. And yeah aso not been invited to ifrit yet in my ls, they go with lancers maurders mages only now.

[Shai]

It is the fault of the LS and the raid leader just as much as it is the game mechanics.

It is undoubtedly easier to take 4-5 Lancers who can stand around out of Sear range than it is to take other melee who must either dance in and out of Sear (not impossible, but takes time/practice/training) or soak up curative effort (self-cures, healers' mp) which a Lancer can simply "not do" as long as they don't stand close enough.

Archer could always be untouched by Sear, but runs the risk of being locked up (more so) by the ground moves. A good Archer, on the other hand, could still dodge and build TP (yup, with punches) avoid Sear and do great spike damage if any LS/Raid Leader was willing to give them the chance to gain that skill.

The mechanics do favor 1 particular class more than another, but really it's bad leadership to make your allies stand on the sidelines while you plow through a fight in easy mode. If you're just learning the fight, then yes maybe you should stick to easy mode - but once you are winning consistently, it's time to get your other LS members involved. It's a fun fight and everyone can pull their weight in there as long as they learn to dodge effectively, including Archers and Pugilists.

My name is Shai Hulud and I take Archers & Pugilists. ^^
(Prefer Lancer, though, if you got it leveled!)

[Exni]

It is the fault of the LS and the raid leader just as much as it is the game mechanics.

It is undoubtedly easier to take 4-5 Lancers who can stand around out of Sear range than it is to take other melee who must either dance in and out of Sear (not impossible, but takes time/practice/training) or soak up curative effort (self-cures, healers' mp) which a Lancer can simply "not do" as long as they don't stand close enough.

Archer could always be untouched by Sear, but runs the risk of being locked up (more so) by the ground moves. A good Archer, on the other hand, could still dodge and build TP (yup, with punches) avoid Sear and do great spike damage if any LS/Raid Leader was willing to give them the chance to gain that skill.

The mechanics do favor 1 particular class more than another, but really it's bad leadership to make your allies stand on the sidelines while you plow through a fight in easy mode. If you're just learning the fight, then yes maybe you should stick to easy mode - but once you are winning consistently, it's time to get your other LS members involved. It's a fun fight and everyone can pull their weight in there as long as they learn to dodge effectively, including Archers and Pugilists.

My name is Shai Hulud and I take Archers & Pugilists. ^^
(Prefer Lancer, though, if you got it leveled!)

Sup Shai. Can you link a vid with you taking a group with 2+ ARC's ftw? I'm not doubting you ( remember you from MK ), it's just that I have been looking/asking/hoping for a vid of someone taking a group showing ARC's even being viable in this fight. I'm sure that the other DD would be LNC/MRD but that OK, just seeing a pair of ARC's downing Ifrit would be awesome.

[Coldbrand]

Don't "adjust balance" by nerfing Lancer. Adjust it by buffing those who need it.

[Jinko]

Don't "adjust balance" by nerfing Lancer. Adjust it by buffing those who need it.

Please listen to this, ideally the devs should be going in and testing all the DPS classes and getting a roughly even result with similar tiered gear and materia.

Obviously if animation lock is causing issue both for DPS and taking damage then it needs to be addressed, I don't think archer can wait til 2.0