Yes, 4.0 Dragoon is TOO simple

[Blackbard]

But I'm choosing to look at the positives. Which is elusive jump FINALLY got its cooldown reduced, dragonfire dive FINALLY got buffed, and we can actually do tons of aoe damage now.

Oh man, were totally on the same wave length! When I saw the reduction especially to elusive that made me suuuuuuper happy. At times I feel like a supreme nerd waiting for that ONE perfect chance to leap out with style from an aoe. Now theres just gonna be way more of those moments. Also the E Honda style hundred strikes with the lance for aoe situations is another thing im looking forward to as well. Its because of things like that Im looking forward to the expansion overwhelmingly and hope the post doesnt come across as a complaint fest. The intent is to participate with feedback to the devs about the job I most care about!

[Blackbard]

It\'s not like it was hard at all once you mastered it which shouldn\'t take that much time as long as you\'re actually decent at the game.
Kinda laughing about the "ressource management".
Yeah that was so hard.

So learning the rotation to keep Bofd up wasnt difficult. In fact with the difficulty of the content outside of your rotation, it felt like a good enough mix. Learning when to best complete a 2.5 or 3 gcd combo to refresh the buff in order to keep it going into another mob or even the start of a boss encounter, or best practice buff windows, etc, is what I was trying to refer to when I wrote of meaningful choices. In seeing some peoples replies, I think I should have titled the thread a little better. I wasnt really harping on the ease of the class, as I mentioned its always been since 2.0 a sort of easy, if strict rotation in order to maximize potency. What I was trying to bring to the devs attention was the loss of nuance in the job. There were arguments to be made before in how some skills could be used as a damage potency loss in one area might be mitigated with another choice of action, like saving mobility for one skill or another. As it stands now, the best use of a lot of those skills is so apparently one way, that it feels like it SHOULD only be used one way to someone who cares.

You should be happy, we\'re actually getting something good, it\'s evolving in a good way, yes, it might be "easier" to get into, just like every other class, but it\'s definitely not that "easier" to master.

Man I tried walking that line between speaking to my concerns about the job, while still making sure I spoke about how much Im looking forward to SB. Im definitely happy about everything theyve shown us were getting in this expansion: lore, zones, everything really. But when it comes to what I see coming down the pipeline for my main, its a little bittersweet is all. Theres more heart and style coming to us, yep. But Im just talking with you all about the substance of the gameplay, which ill be doing everyday in dungeons, raids, trials, story, etc. Theres a lot of time fighting.

I actually wanted to check your FFlogs to see if you had some experience in raiding, couldn\'t find anything, maybe beacause there is none, maybe because they\'re private idk, but if you were actually raiding in a good way, you\'d clearly have a co-melee that would be able to get along with you and stay in range.

I dont know why but the fact that someone scoped me out for performance makes me feel weirdly flattered? But if youre somehow alluding to my ability to speak on these changes being based on raiding, one aspect of the game that some people do but not all, that just isnt fair. I spent the Heavensward leveling all my crafting and gathering classes id neglected since 2.0 beta. I spent the last year going back and completing long side quests to experience lore and story I missed during 2.x and some of 3.x. Hell I got a house and decorated it with my own stuff I built, which made me super happy. So, the then hardmode challenge trials of titan, garuda, ifrit and so on I did DURING 2.x was not what I ended up focusing on in Heavensward. FFlogs doesnt reflect my logging in almost every day to do run roulettes, 24 man raids, extreme trials, etc, where I always tried to do my best as I played dragoon individually, and later the other dps and tank jobs I took the time to level. Believe me man, I wouldnt speak to nuance in raiding for the class, but that doesnt make what I said not true for everything else you know.

Anyways, thank you all for the replies. I really hope it gives something good for the devs to bounce back and forth going forward! And also, I really understand we don't truly have the final tooltips, or even the most up to date ones from the media tour. But this time around, I wanted to join in with the community and give some feed back on the info we do know. Hopefully it helps!

[thegreatonemal]

snip

not to raid caliber which is what stems all the whining and complaining on every forum about how everyone they meet in df is trash.
@Shurrikhan those games still teach you how to play the game properly.

[Hyrist]

It's popular on forums to complain about something that amounts to a fix to the majority of players. I'm reserving judgment until I actually PLAY the class, rather than look at something that's not even the final patch notes and jum -

No. Not making that joke. Wait to play the Job, then complain.

[gumas]

Ff14 from the based is targeted to more casual friendly people who just want to enjoy the story, interaction and the community. I mean, this is the 1st time in any mmo that i see a huge patch regarding QOL (photo mode, gliter effect, house decoration, emote etc) instead of balancing class or fixing bugs etc, the game literally has no pvp until later on which pretty much show their original goal.

To some of you who looking for a challenge i can see why this put you off, but for me who play it casual (the typical who only do 80% effort in dungeon or raid, who usually too busy chatting, the norm with "as long we clear the dungeon, good enough" mindset) this is good news for us

[Gallus]

Honestly I like the new DRG. The 3.0 looked like a freaking mess. Phlebotomize or w/e it's called was a DoT in the middle of nowhere, glad they removed it. Random positionals were so inconvenient and Geirskogul decreasing your BotD timer was annoying too, they got rid of Enochian's timer for the BLM so it's only fair they did this to DRG too.

Not to mention, there's a lot more room for thought into the new DRG rotation now than there was in the 3.0.

A tight timer, an OGCD that made the tight timer even worse and a DOT that consumed 90TP and that was mostly responsible for every single TP problem this class had, along with the fact it freaking broke your combos and completely destroyed your rotation if you pressed it at the wrong time. And all these annoyances in a game with bosses that have 114 10 second downtimes each one.

Pretty sure you are the only one going to miss the old DRG TC...

[Zojha]

Wait to play the Job, then complain.

And then you do play the job, complain and then people come and go:
"Well now the changes are final, deal with it. Should've complained when they were still in development."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[NovaLevossida]

People who werent dragoons at heart complained about how boring dragoon was to level due to its few options and repetitive nature.

That stuck out, and I wanted to comment on that. I've loved BLM since the launch of the original FF game, but it's not like even I didn't have complaints about how ARR's BLM was just a Fire 1 spam hoping to win the Fire 3 lottery. Just because you're a fan of a job doesn't mean you can't criticize it, which seems to be exactly what you're doing in this topic after that line.

[gumas]

^which is why i can see why they change the norm rotation to something more simple and more approachable, yes for the die hard drg this can feel like you are being "looked down upon" but, for the norm this mean they can finally step up their dps because a much more smoother rotation combo.

I see many player in raid usually just leeching and didnt even try to put up 50% dps effort especially in usual raid or easy raid, brd just spamming heavy shot over and over, drg only use impulse drive and nothing more, these 2 class are most suspectible for it

[Hyrist]

And then you do play the job, complain and then people come and go:
"Well now the changes are final, deal with it. Should've complained when they were still in development."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

No evidence in this game has ever indicated that the changes, once made, are final. Especially with tweaking. And, really, I haven't seen that argument ever presented as you incline. What they will say is, and may be true, is that your argument does not represent the evidence nor the majority of the player's wishes, and that you're effectively the odd ones out when it comes to making a polarizing choice.

However, at least making your case after all the information is provided and a firsthand account, you have the evidence of a first-hand account, and not a knee-jerk response founded on information specifically stated "in development" and conjecture that is frequently hyperbolic.

To which I'd say, wouldn't you rather stand on firmer ground?

To others who are saying Dragoons did not complain about this. Count me as a counter-example. Something in Dragoon's rotation ever since Heavensward felt off to me, and I frequently experienced wrist pain trying to get around a rotation whether on keyboard or a controller - regardless of adjustments. It was one of the reasons that lead to me going on haitus - as I identify most with Dragoon on my main character. I am hoping the transition relieves one of the two if not both but I won't know until I'm actually pushing the rotation and adjusting my layout to accompany the changes.

(Thankfully, if not. Red Mage was my most identifiable Job in FFXI, and I am excited in what I see in its implementation, but again, I have to wait to see how it feels, physically.)