We're all DDs now >.>

[Bourne_Endeavor]

At least for me, I'm voicing my disinterest and displeasure in the healer design of this game precisely because I spend the majority of my time browsing the forums on mobile while spamming damage spells as a healer, rather than actually paying attention to anything going on in game. Healer dps in this game is incredibly boring and lackluster as I stated before, with no mechanics integrated into it to make it flow more smoothly and naturally. I've had more times falling asleep at the wheel while dpsing as a healer that I've ever had when I had to actually focus on my core role of healing. So, yes, I'm going to voice how much I abhor the design because there are Indy games way better designed than the healing gameplay in this game could ever hope to be, at least IMHO. So, I'll happily voice all my hatred for the design when it's pertinent. :3

See, we don't disagree. Despite liking to DPS, I fully admit it's silly the sheer amount of downtime we have and would welcome stronger healer checks with open arms. You weren't speaking against the design though, you attempted to claim tanks and DPS do not face criticism for not adapting to their respective roles properly when they do. Players aren't at fault for the DPS meta. The devs are for how they scale content. Yoshi talks about his dislike of Cleric and that "you should be healers." Preference doesn't trump functionality. If they want healers to heal more frequently stop making everything a complete pushover and stop releasing supposedly brand new dungeons we're upwards of 30 ilvls ahead on release.

You know what I want? Dungeons to borrow from the upper floors of PotD; 130+. I am running it with friends now and those mobs hurt. Dropping tank stance against certain mobs and especially bosses can be suicidal. Healer DPS is actually a bonus if two or more mobs aggro. There are priority mobs that need to die fast, thus the DPS need to know when to aoe and when to single target. Bring that kind of diversified play to dungeon as a foundation and build around. It would certainly make for less streamlined gameplay.

[Arrius]

You are aware that alot (most?) people active in this thread lately ARE healers, right?

Pretty sure I saw a roughly 60+ page large thread somewhere here about the upcoming changes, consisting of witchhunting, accusations, trolling and insults.
This is what I am refering to.

You do realize that the XIV community (and all communities) are made up of individual people with varying opinions, yea?

Hence I said 'forum' community. Yet my point still stands about that comment of yours. Not mainly about you, but in general.

[SpookyGhost]

Hence I said 'forum' community. Yet my point still stands about that comment of yours. Not mainly about you, but in general.

I mean, it's a strange comment to make. When you bring up getting an official parser you get people who are for it and people who are against it. Similarly, when you bring up healer DPS you have people who are for it and people who are against it. The forum community doesn't want any one specific thing, individual people have varying opinions on a wide range of different topics. One person could like healer DPS and hate parsers, one person could hate healer DPS and love parsers, etc. etc.

[Arrius]

I mean, it's a strange comment to make. When you bring up getting an official parser you get people who are for it and people who are against it. Similarly, when you bring up healer DPS you have people who are for it and people who are against it. The forum community doesn't want any one specific thing, individual people have varying opinions on a wide range of different topics. One person could like healer DPS and hate parsers, one person could hate healer DPS and love parsers, etc. etc.

Though the forum community swings heavily towards anti-parser and pro-healer dps from what manage to pick up from the bigger posts about them, and those are the ones I am referencing to.
Of course, there's also reddit and other places of communities you can access to about FF14, yet for the most people the official boards are their first stop.

[KisaiTenshi]

You were saying?

The entire Conjurer storyline revolves around a character who only wants to heal before having it explained to her there is more to Conjury than merely healing.

That is taken out of context, like i said the LAST TIME someone posted it. The storyline has nothing to do with the players skills. Just like ALL classes. Sylphie was using her own life energy, like her mother did, and it killed her mother, thus the entire point of the storyline was irrelevant because the conjurer draws from MP not HP to heal. If you pay attention at all during the combat, you'll see that Sylphie is yet another one of these dumb AI's who just stands there. Nothing in the storyline solo/play is relevant to group play.

Wow, props to people still arguing with Kisai.

I consider them a lost case not worth arguing with.

On a sidenote: How do you play a game for years (since 1.0)and still only have il 180 gear?
This person has basically seen NOTHING relevant of heavensward and yet is proudly sporting how to play a healer without having any clue on how its done.

Tbh, I still think its a troll posting with an alt.

Nope. When you pull out the Ad hominem and name calling attacks, you've lost the argument, because you're resorting to attacking the person's character instead of finding factually wrong information as a basis for a counter-argument.

No it seems like everyone's "healer must DPS" argument comes out of thin air and from players being toxic on some servers. It does not change the fact that NONE of the gameplay requires it. That has been my argument every single time this comes up. That guy who says he has 83% downtime is because he is playing badly, and admitted so.

When I play with PUG's, there is little to no downtime, and the less overgeared someone is (particularly the tank) the harder it is. I've expected tanks to try to speed run things, because that is what I can adapt to. I've adapted to more tanks playing poorly, while playing healer. When I play DPS in dungeon play I just roll my eyes when a healer spams every HoT heal on everyone, but hey I'm not the tank I'm not going to complain about that. I've not played tank more than a little bit because I honestly don't have the inventory space and have been trying to cull inventory items by leveling all the same-gear classes at the same time so I can get rid of the low-level gear. THAT is why my main class has ilevel 180 gear, because I have no space to put anything. Until I get AST and SCH up to level 60, all the intermediate gear is taking up space, and because all pre-50 caster gear is the same, I have to level BLM up as well. With the upcoming red mage I'm expecting that that will yet again be more caster gear.

[Greedalox]

Nope. When you pull out the Ad hominem and name calling attacks, you've lost the argument, because you're resorting to attacking the person's character instead of finding factually wrong information as a basis for a counter-argument.

An argument is opposing views trying to sway the other. You can't be swayed so there's no point arguing with you. People have given you as much information as they possibly could and your best retort is that you need to heal for 80% of the dungeons and that NPC AI in this game is dumb (???). They're calling you a brickwall and a troll not as an attack, but an observation.

Nobody won this argument, so you can't say they've lost. Lol.

[Hamada]

Yet strangely, if we request a valid source of information about the DPS pulling their weight (aka, parsers), the forum community blows up and goes all 'but it will be used for evil!'But hey, more fun grilling the healers here and bully them into a playstyle they might not want, right?

The reason the " forum community blows up " is because we are reflecting what we see people act in DFs. I had someone grill me over what spells to cast just because he died in loldeadcontent Labyrinth of the Ancients. Someone MPKed my friend and kept wiping a12n just because he did not like where she put the stack marker (she assumed she is supposed to put it near the boss like every other run?) Also seen people attack others for weak DPS to try win arguments (I once got to see this happen on a steam, with a DPS meter on it, and the people where harassing the top 2 DPS for having weak dps just because one of them ran the wrong way earlier by mistake.

Then you have people giving out coms just based on who's the most DPS and not what is going on. A person playing DPS tank found it worth it when draining all the healer mp and mp recovery cd. "I am right because of x rank on FFXIV logs" There is already enough toxicity with regards of doing the most DPS and you want to make it worse?

[Hamada]

No it seems like everyone's "healer must DPS" argument comes out of thin air and from players being toxic on some servers.

nope:

What on earth O_o isn't that exactly what you are doing? I really do not understand your issue as this is pointed out:

I don't even know what you're trying to say in that convoluted post. Healer's operate on a simple priority system: Is healing needed? Yes→Heal / No→DPS. That's all there is to it.

That is all there is to it. The only reason people get on the back of healers only healing is because it means they are not doing much while DPS have to use specific rotations and done so at split second timings, so much so medium ping rates effect how much they can dps. So when someone is trying their hardest making these rotations and sees someone not doing much, it is pretty insulting.

My friend was doing ast relic (I posted this in the rant thread) on this group on her back for using clerics even though no one died. Then she had to heal bomb the mediocre tank to death because the SMN did not know what an AoE is or use AoE LB. After having enough with the SMN, who insulted her about using cleric stance, even though no one died once, voted a dismissal that happened to pass. After it did the other 2 admitted being a premade and called her a trash healer because the PLD, had to... *GASP!!!* use Clemency!

Then she was in a group for a long time in a1s pt, doing 90% dps, tossing out aspected regens to go with SCH shields and Essential Dignity whenever the SCH seemed needing a bit of backup to help them with their uptime with clearics. This SCH was replaced with an AST and people kept dying because that AST refused to heal at all. She wanted him to toss out a few essential dignity when needed like she does so both can have highest uptime. After a while the AST left on his own ranting about do not tell me how to play. After that they just let her solo healed and did fine and still tossed out DPS spells. The problem she has with co healers at times is that she expects help in a pinch so she is not spamming heals so much (I do as well to an extent, I had to ask for healing help in dun before), basically diving the work so both healers have the most uptime.

A simple example is , why should I have to cast 2 or 3 succor when both SCH can just heal the whole party when both use Indomitability? So there is more uptime for both healers when both heal for a split second, not depending on one to heal, one to DPS.

"We're all DDs now" I am not sure how endgame 1.0 was, but as far as 2.0+, sorry but this was always the case. Everyone in this game does some kind of damage, there never was pure roles here.

How come you are ignoring people? Yeah healer dps is not required, just like it is not required for tanks to use more then flash, it is not required for DPS to AoE monsters, so on. I done experts and such where the highest dps is the healer, takes 30 mins, but DPS doing their job is not a requirement.

People are not here saying DPS from a healer is a requirement, what people are saying is that you shouldn't be standing around doing nothing or overhealing for long periods of time, it is that simple.

I just roll my eyes when a healer spams every HoT heal on everyone, but hey I'm not the tank I'm not going to complain about that

I hope this is a poor choice of words otherwise it shows how little you know. One healer has two while having a 3rd ground based one that cannot be spammed to long CD, a second healer has only 1 that is stance dependent, with a second on a long CD that is ground target so with this healer a good chance you never see a HoT used, and a 3rd healer only has a "Hot" on a semi long CD off a pet command on a specific pet. You make it sound like all healers have 3+ HoT spells when that is not the case at all. This statment only applies to whm and yo should just said "I see a lot of whm spaming medica II and regens frequently for prepull and that is not something I see everyday. The only thing close I seen is a tank pulling with an old regen on and not bothering to use hate tools for pulling so it goes to the healer.

[Arrius]

[...]

See, barely brushing on the topic about this, and here they come.
Thanks for proving my point.

[Hamada]

See, barely brushing on the topic about this, and here they come.
Thanks for proving my point.

It is not proving your point, I heal, I heal bad DFs, in fact I healed a bad DF not to long ago to get my 275 relic "why tf did everyone quit this is easy as s***" "bad heals man" and 10 minutes later (yes I mean literally I have time stamps, we where waiting for a second healer) I commented how this person got one shot from not dodging mechanics. No one bullied me that I had little room to DPS because people playing Containment Bay Z1T9 poorly. Despite the comments I made, I still got 2 coms. Maybe they had average healers, not able carry that BS, but I was able to with a new Co. People do/ will/ and have, blame healers frequently for fails when it is not their fault.

People are not "bullying" healers to DPS, people are asking people not to be lazy, all it is.