Are role actions a nerf?

[SendohJin]

You only play tank or something? ... You do not know how much paralyze hurts casting. You do not know how much damage people can take. Protect, esuna, and swfitcast (for SCH) are needs.

i main SCH, Protect and Esuna are not needs for every fight. i will have Protect for all 4 man content, i will have Esuna if i'm not familiar with the fight but i won't have either all the time.

the t hing is actively believing that all of a sudden players will just switch these skills out accordingly is just crazy

i know that i will. i don't care what random people in DF do, bad players are bad players, you deal with them in SB the same way you deal with them now. this is not a new way for them to be extra bad, those people already did not level THM for Swiftcast. those people already do not cast Esuna when they see you have a debuff on. i don't care if i have to run an entire 4 man dungeon without Protect.

[Hamada]

i main SCH, Protect and Esuna are not needs for every fight. i will have Protect for all 4 man content, i will have Esuna if i'm not familiar with the fight but i won't have either all the time.


i know that i will. i don't care what random people in DF do, bad players are bad players, you deal with them in SB the same way you deal with them now. this is not a new way for them to be extra bad, those people already did not level THM for Swiftcast. those people already do not cast Esuna when they see you have a debuff on. i don't care if i have to run an entire 4 man dungeon without Protect.

You just contradicted yourself. I care about having protect as baseline because it means less damage taken, less to heal, means more room for dps to get runs cleared, like turning a 40 min expert into 30 because I maximize my DPS with "bad players" esuna is important because if they get hit with something they shouldn't of, well paralyze is a huge dps loss, esp when it hits a caster. Or heavy dot, healing though it vs esuna, healing though it is too much downtime.

These should be base line for a healer, not "optional bonus abilities" They are still trying to shoe horn that 1.0 system and make fee like we got choices or something. Having protect be usable as a melee or something is a "bonus option" there should be no reason why it is not baseline for healing, same with esuna.

Saying baseline abilities should be optional is so lolworthy to me, it is like, lets make fire IV optional. You do not always need fire IV afterall, you can just cast fire III and fire I. When there is a limit of 5 and 2 are needed as baseline, that is an issue

[SendohJin]

You just contradicted yourself...

Saying baseline abilities should be optional is so lolworthy to me, it is like, lets make fire IV optional. You do not always need fire IV afterall, you can just cast fire III and fire I. When there is a limit of 5 and 2 are needed as baseline, that is an issue

No, I didn't. And your example shows why you are laughing at something you don't understand. DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed. in what situation will Fire III and Fire I kill everything in a dungeon/trial faster than having Fire IV? name one that currently exists in the game.

if the co-healer already has Protect it's not needed at all for the other healer. that's a situation where it might as well not be there.

same thing for Esuna, if there's nothing to cleanse for that trial or dungeon it's not needed. Moogle Extreme is the only Lv 50 EX Primals with something obvious to cleanse.

[Hamada]

No, I didn't. And your example shows why you are laughing at something you don't understand. DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed. in what situation will Fire III and Fire I killeverything in a dungeon/trial faster than having Fire IV? name one that currently exists in the game.

if the co-healer already has Protect it's not needed at all for the other healer. that's a situation where it might as well not be there.

same thing for Esuna, if there's nothing to cleanse for that trial or dungeon it's not needed. Moogle Extreme is the only Lv 50 EX Primals with something obvious to cleanse.

YOU just did..AGAIN!
if you are going to sit here saying protect is not needed but then you say something like "DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed" you just destroyed your own argument why protect should be baseline! You really do not see this? Good healers want to maxmize DPS, this means minimize cast time healing, that is what protect does, that is what esuna does, it lets people have max uptime, it is no different then taking Fire IV away from baseline and saying oh it is not needed all the time.

Be no different then taking away healing spells and putting it on that list. Oh you do not need heal spells all the time, just when you have bad tanks who can't keep themselves up 24/7 (the reason why healers do not do much to begin with)

[Felis]

if you are going to sit here saying protect is not needed but then you say something like "DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed" you just destroyed your own argument why protect should be baseline!

Protect =/= Stone Skin
If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it. Because 1 healer with Protect is enough.

Be no different then taking away healing spells and putting it on that list. Oh you do not need heal spells all the time, just when you have bad tanks who can't keep themselves up 24/7 (the reason why healers do not do much to begin with)

No healer would cast Protect every 30 sec like heal and not in duo.

[Hamada]

Protect =/= Stone Skin
If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it. Because 1 healer with Protect is enough.


No healer would cast Protect every 30 sec like heal and not in duo.

Where did I say protect = stoneskin?

It does not matter "If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it" You are missing the point, that only shows flaw in this system. Why should I go in a DF and spend 5 minutes talking about what spells to use? it is counter productive in making things "easier" Putting on protect to start a run, taking it off, then putting it back on because someone dies is not something I am going to find fun. Protect should be baseline, PERIOD

You want LESS people to play hears? this is good for bringing that out.

" Are role actions a nerf?"

From what we have been shown so far, yes, yes they are. WHM got hurt the most by this "Nerf"

It is a skill road block for those of lesser skilled, and an annoyance for those that know what to do. Nothing good comes out of it except shifting the illusion of choice spectrum.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I am not trying to be rude, honestly, but how can something that takes a few seconds be a big pain in the ass? Like... I get that you don't want to do it and that is fair, but come on now, aren't we being a little slightly over the top here?

To add on to this. You'd have to change your hotbar, too, as once a skill you had on the previous cross-role selection is replaced it'll serve no purpose being on your current hotbar - meaning you'd then have to either toggle to a different saved hotbar or manually replace a skill(s) every time.

So, a whole bunch of swapping around things; perhaps even numerous times in an instance if you wish to be optimal for each encounter and boss. People are already impatient and quick to rile up... this will only give them another reason; also I can't say I'll be too pleased with having to wait for a guy to do this and that, nor doing it myself. Whole bunch of unwanted and unnecessary tedium.

The system is not being simplified for players that don't read tooltips, they have said plenty of time [especially over the live letter] their big concern is how many abilities you can map to the cross bar.

Over and over they kept saying how this is going to be better for gamepad users [on every platform.]

If I'm swapping them out that regularly, then I'm not going to be swapping my hotbars around as well.

I'm just going to have ALL of the cross role skills on my bars and just use the ones I have selected.

No hotbar space saved...
In fact, now I've got 10 cross abilities on my bars at all times now...

[Neophyte]

Why should I go in a DF and spend 5 minutes talking about what spells to use?

If you are talking about normal trials/24-man: Just have protect slotted in advance, who cares? What are you missing then?
In 24-man you can switch it out if you want after the first boss. If you want to. If not, no big deal.
If it's true what another one here said skills are sloted automatically if you don't want to do it yourself.
Why do you care if you don't want to use Rescue, Break, etc. anyway in a low skill environment with strangers.

If you are talking about savage/extreme trials: Take that goddam minute! This is not a scrub random dungeon.
Who cares if we have to announce which tank takes which add, which position everyone goes, etc... anyway?
Yesterday after an wipe in a Zurvan kill we actually discussed what went wrong. What's the problem in saying, "btw gonna slot CS now instead prot" (or Rescue if you are often tethered to peole who run around like headless chicken in tether phase).
Those are supposed to be the challenging contents. One additional part to have some different strategies is nice there.
And the absolutly baseline of those are: Be able to talk and to adjust.
Do you know how OP cover+tempered will in Sophia Ex is? Do you know how OP rescue and Surecast will be there?
While average dps need 3 minutes to announce there number finally anyway, I'll just say "You prot, I rescue?"
Or, if like in A3s heavy status is useful "You prot, I heavy?"
Or both use break/rescue if no esuna is required.

I'll just have my 2-3 macros switching my skillsets and placing my skills on hotbar and will be used to it after a day.
If some1 is too lazy, too stupid or too insecure to switch now and then, just keeps his skills and keeps to the dungeons, trial roulette, normal raid and 24-man.
Lazy/Stupid/Insecure people who think a single 4-word sentence about strategy is to much don't belong into savage&Co.
If they join there will be much, much talk anyway because of them.

[Felis]

Where did I say protect = stoneskin?

Because you sounded as if Protect have a short duration and need to be recast every time.