Combo Consolidation: How long before we see it in PVE?

[Lambdafish]

I think that in 5.0 this should be how new skills are implemented rather than as new skills outright. I'm also in the camp of finding it a bit weird to consolidate the basic combo (not against, just not particularly fond of the idea in practice), but I can definately see skill changing depending on circumstance. An example would be on SMN, if they ever went crazy and added another trance, the button could replace the dreadwyrm trance button, or on the tanks the button could be replaced depending on which stance they are in (a really good example would be fell cleave)

[YitharV2]

I could see this being useful for someone with a disability, but honestly seems boring otherwise. Monk's fun to me partially because of the rotation.

Also, what happens if you need to move for an AoE or mechanic? How does that work? (sorry if I sound harsh, just wondering)

[OcieKo]

I think that in 5.0 this should be how new skills are implemented rather than as new skills outright. I'm also in the camp of finding it a bit weird to consolidate the basic combo (not against, just not particularly fond of the idea in practice), but I can definately see skill changing depending on circumstance. An example would be on SMN, if they ever went crazy and added another trance, the button could replace the dreadwyrm trance button, or on the tanks the button could be replaced depending on which stance they are in (a really good example would be fell cleave)

Good point having Defiance/Deliverance swap Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone with Fel Cleave/(Deliverance AOE that has that shattered earth icon) would be a nice QOL change thatd probably be pretty eadily to implement with rotating skill buttons.

[OcieKo]

I could see this being useful for someone with a disability, but honestly seems boring otherwise. Monk's fun to me partially because of the rotation.

Also, what happens if you need to move for an AoE or mechanic? How does that work? (sorry if I sound harsh, just wondering)

Generally these systems keep the combo fall off time that would normally exists, i.e. Monks would be around 10s and everyone else is around 6sec or so. Just thing of the times when you finish a fight mid combo and it takes a sec before that yellow border drops on the next button. Also that border would probably be gone considering this system would basically kill its function. If this system was an option (should be if/when it gets implemented into PVE) the yellow combo progress border would be there when its off.

Said it before but yes in a system like this Monk will be tricky, since blatantly excluding monks is also a bad option.

[YitharV2]

With a dynamic key setup, as above, there is zero difference. You're still controlling only one action at a time, and can chain in any way you want.

With a by-final key setup, as in PvP, it'd simply wait until you got back in range to finish it (on your next key press if the queue has timed out), and you could always cancel the combo by using a ranged ability.

Hmm yeah I don't see dynamic setup working with Perfect Balance. Personally I don't see them making Form Shift as an oGCD, although if they did then it could work.

Well that feels like the game playing the game for me. In PvP I don't mind them doing it though because of how pvp is in this game.

[Ferth]

Yep Monk is the issue along side Perfect Balance. That skill is very easily the "monk"ey wrench of the plan (bad puns, but i had to sorry). The most feasible plan I had is the same as yours, just with less progress blocks than most jobs. But with rotations in Perfect Balance can break in so many ways, locked on current stance, auto force to stance 3. I guess Perfect Balance could be nice as an emergency max Greased Lightnin generator CD, but its nice function as an AOE booster would be lost, and as a rapid buff/debuff applier poof. But yes, monk is easily the crutch of the plan. Well have to see how monk pvp turns out in 4.0 before we can hypothesize and theorycraft more.

Also, glad you got a laugh out of that arguement opener as well.

I suppose if it really came down to it you could have the consolidated keys for normal rotations and then just whichever abilities you would use with perfect balance on more obscure keys, whether that be rock-breaker for aoe, Snap-punch for greased-lightning stacks or boot-strap for crits. It would still allow you the benefit of saving more handy key-binds for oGCD skills and would only require a slightly more odd button press when using Perfect Balance.

In my head when I envisioned Consolidated Keybinds for monk specifically, Rock-Breaker and Arm of the Destroyer weren't even things I figured you would use consolidated keybinds for. and while it wouldn't cut down on total key-binds as much this way it would atleast be allowing you to move them to a less prominent place since you'd only be using them for 10 seconds every 3 minutes.

[Shurrikhan]

Hmm yeah I don't see dynamic setup working with Perfect Balance. Personally I don't see them making Form Shift as an oGCD, although if they did then it could work.

Well that feels like the game playing the game for me. In PvP I don't mind them doing it though because of how pvp is in this game.

I honestly can't imagine why.

With every stance you have access to 3 skills. Now you have 3 buttons for 3 usable skills, rather than having 3 buttons out of 9 available at a give time. For up to 1/18th of the time, the Monk gains access to all 9 skills, but is that really enough reason to sacrifice 6 slots for 17/18s of the time, rather than using the buff (PB) to make use of another already existent skill (Form Shift) in a way that allows you to use 3 slots to have access to 9 skills?

:: Note, Form Shift would remain as is normally. Simply, Perfect Balance would instead make Form Shift free for 10 seconds. No animation, no animation lock, no delay--nothing. Cycle like a boss. Same effect as having all 9 skills available at once on your bars.

Granted, you do you. If you're enjoying the Monk, you're clearly doing it right anyways.

[Khalithar]

I actually like the concept of the consolidated combos purely for the amount of button space that it would provide. I think them going that way with pvp was actually the right decision.

Now if we could have a way to setup custom combos on a per encounter basis depending on the fight and party layout I think it would be fun. Wildstar did that with their design and I actually enjoyed being able to set up custom loadouts for the variety of fights.

[Khalithar]

Snip

Can't edit on mobile. Ninja and monk are bad examples of the consolidation idea because of the sort of branching choices they have with things. A better suggestion for consolidation would be something like drg.

Wheeling/Fang could stay separate buttons while the Chaos Thrust and Full Thrust combos could very easily be consolidated in to one button because those are always the same.

[Aquaslash]

As a Dragoon main, I see no reason to NOT do this. I will never use Disembowel, Chaos Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, and Full thrust by themselves EVER. Disembowel and Chaos Thrust literally do not work unless they are used in sequence. I feel that a change like this would steer the game into being less about mechanical skill (which is just muscle memory) and more towards situational skill which is ten times more impressive.

Look at any pvp based game ever. Everyone has the same buttons to press. Skill isn't determined by whether you can follow some silly script, but by how you use your abilities to react to situations. You actually have to THINK and FAST.

I welcome any change that makes the game less about the controls and more about the action!

Good point having Defiance/Deliverance swap Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone with Fel Cleave/(Deliverance AOE that has that shattered earth icon) would be a nice QOL change thatd probably be pretty eadily to implement with rotating skill buttons.

I quite literally have my WAR stances macro'd to automatically exchange Fell Cleave/Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone/ Decimate. I encourage every WAR player to do the same if they haven't already!