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[YitharV2]

TL;DR: If more actions in the game functioned like Mudras, where the Client is trusted without requiring a response from the server, much of FFXIV's clunky action execution problems would evaporate. That's what I think, anyway.
What do you think about FFXIV's overall responsiveness, relating to Ping and in general?

Hmm, my suspicion was that this was the case. You may be interested in reading this tumblr post, which is about a certain thing that was made to counteract this problem of server validation and ping tax, but for a different MMO.

I fall into the category that FFXIV is clunky and slow. I'm used to being able to rapidly cast skills one after another and being able to animation cancel a lot of my skills, so it just feels somewhat slow to me. Like if I don't have any oGCDs to cast, I'm literally sitting there either waiting for the GCD to reach under a quarter of its duration, or I'm spamming the skill (if I don't want to look at my hotbar). From what I understand, WoW has a much shorter GCD (1-1.5s).

[Shurrikhan]

this tumblr post

That was a damn good read... Thanks for linking it.

[Neophyte]

The delay on Bio and buffs like hallowed is intended and has absolutly nothinh to do with connection delay.

Proof: If it was due to 'lag', every def. CD would be affected and Swiftcast+Bio2 or Combust would have a application delay like Bio. Both not the case.

Just look at the application of slashing debuff of Stoms Eye compared to Dancing Edge.
SE applies debuff more than 1s later into the GCD than DE does, a nin weaving a oGCD after DE in will get the debuff effect, a WAR doing a oGCD like stun directly after SE will not.

That's intended game design.

[Ama_Hamada]

The delay on Bio and buffs like hallowed is intended and has absolutly nothinh to do with connection delay.

Proof: If it was due to 'lag', every def. CD would be affected and Swiftcast+Bio2 or Combust would have a application delay like Bio. Both not the case.

Just look at the application of slashing debuff of Stoms Eye compared to Dancing Edge.
SE applies debuff more than 1s later into the GCD than DE does, a nin weaving a oGCD after DE in will get the debuff effect, a WAR doing a oGCD like stun directly after SE will not.

That's intended game design.

Can't bane after Bio II (the bane fails to transfer even on hard cast bio II) but can bane after miasma and swiftcast miasma. (never fails to transfer) It is a coding issue, it might be "intended" but it needs changed. No reason for them to be so slow. All it does is make the game feel clunky and just gets worse each bit you are over 80 ms. (Meaning you feel it more and more as ping increases) If the game was intended to be playable at 200 ms, this clunklyness needs changing. ALL DOTs cept maybe miasma? appear too slow, like brd dots, bio, bio II.

[Amiral_Benson]

Hmm, my suspicion was that this was the case. You may be interested in reading this tumblr post, which is about a certain thing that was made to counteract this problem of server validation and ping tax, but for a different MMO.

I spent an hour to read it entirely, thank a lot YitharV2 for the link, this was very instructive, and it confirms everything I was suspecting about how FFXIV net-code is behaving. And it shows that indeed it's possible to get a smooth responsive game and no DPS loss with high pings by changing how the net-code works. The workaround discussed in that link, is smart, and could be avoided if devs were willing to make some changes.

[Sousoulsu]

I'm glad people are responding positively to this. Since 2.0, I've been saying that XIV's got some kind of weird netcode going on, and people always told me I was wrong or my internet sucks.

I think after the server move, people are finally beginning to understand that there's something wonky going on under the hood.

Hmm, my suspicion was that this was the case. You may be interested in reading this tumblr post, which is about a certain thing that was made to counteract this problem of server validation and ping tax, but for a different MMO.

I fall into the category that FFXIV is clunky and slow. I'm used to being able to rapidly cast skills one after another and being able to animation cancel a lot of my skills, so it just feels somewhat slow to me. Like if I don't have any oGCDs to cast, I'm literally sitting there either waiting for the GCD to reach under a quarter of its duration, or I'm spamming the skill (if I don't want to look at my hotbar). From what I understand, WoW has a much shorter GCD (1-1.5s).

Thanks for that link, it's a very interesting read. Bookmarked and will be sharing it, as it expresses issues with online games and how they deliver information between clients and servers with a lot of clarity.

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm glad people are responding positively to this. Since 2.0, I've been saying that XIV's got some kind of weird netcode going on, and people always told me I was wrong or my internet sucks.

I think after the server move, people are finally beginning to understand that there's something wonky going on under the hood.



Thanks for that link, it's a very interesting read. Bookmarked and will be sharing it, as it expresses issues with online games and how they deliver information between clients and servers with a lot of clarity.

I been trying to address it for a while as well, as here is an older thread of mine:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...me-too-slow%29

There was other posts where I say "I still see this lag at 30-50 ms" and the reply I get " are you on a 56k modem? your computer is out of date... Maybe people really just do not notice it? I do not see how when it goes into LBs as well, you can use the LB meter and have nothing happen because it is too slow to register and you are dead. So if you never lbed why did the meter get used? coding needs to "git gud" People with quick reaction times should be able tell the difference of lag issues as far as internet networking and something weird with the game coding. It feels different and one always happens while the other is issues here and there. So my guess people tell you that because they have slower reaction times then we do, or they are just used to it and see it as normal. Also for the people saying they can double weave at 100 ms, I bet you they are clipping off the next gcd doing that.

[YitharV2]

I've translated a more concise version of the OP that someone else wrote up on Reddit and posted it in the JP General Discussion here. Japanese isn't my native language but I think I at least got the message across.

[Ama_Hamada]

I've translated a more concise version of the OP that someone else wrote up on Reddit and posted it in the JP General Discussionhere. Japanese isn't my native language but I think I at least got the message across.

I do not know how speak in proper Japanese but I believe the reply ya got so far was "I have not had problems, but some have, will the maint fix this?"

I do not think it is clear we are talking about the "intended" delays since they existed in 1.0 + (2.0 made it better but still existed in 2.0 - now) this game has to make it feel clunky, I have enough issues trying to get people understand that here.

Maybe use Benediction as an example, Benediction, blood for blood, limit break, etc is too slow to use, by code, and with the increased ping people are getting, the problem is more noticeable. DoTs appear too slow like windbite, bio, bio II (miasma works for some unknown reason)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-POTD.../page2

I also did not like the treatment I got here from what I saw was more proof on it. I doono what the heck the TC was on about with the thread but when I saw the slow response in having the buff appear on the brd and the fact the monster should of attacked the brd, since the cast was completed before the SCH died, I just thought they where confused why that did not happen with the monster reset.

It went straight shot completed, monster starts the wind up, attack buff wears off, attack completes (after a slight lag skating) SCH dies, monster goes on reset, Shield lob, straight shot FINALLY registers and hits the immune monster. How is the game that slow??? All that happening after the cast finished till the registered effect? We could also debate If the monsters see no animation delay when we do, I also think this is the case from the dodging problems we can see. If we assume no animation delays on the monster, the monster started to charge the attack (the rings on the feet) while keeping the buff on, before the straight shot was finished completing. It was in the very early stages (monster lifting arm up) when the straight shot did complete. So another question I have is, why do monsters get NO DELAY!!! when we do? When the monsters get no delay of animation, we end up with no time to react at times and need to start the mesmerizing and foreseeing movement things. This can lead to confusion at times on what killed you, since it is possible to be hit (or hit monsters) while dead already.


Now if we assumed proper coding, the SCH should of been hit with an unbuffed attack(well debatable as it appears to charge at the last millisecond as it falls), while if the SCH still died, go for the BRD then PLD quickly after and not reset. I do not know why people jumped on my back for that, as I do not know what is funny about annoying coding issues.