Dam. meter

[Lium]

I'm familiar with it. And you can and should get kicked in a circumstances like that if you're not contributing still.

I can clear a dungeon just fine and nobody will die if I refuse to AoE. Does that mean I shouldn't be kicked? Of course not! I can do the same if all I do when tanking is Riot Blade + Flash. Same deal.

Clearing the content is NOT a good baseline, because you can get carried through damn near anything.

Then this sounds like a case of wanting speed clears. Which is perfectly fine, but is not vital to clearing content or progression. If you want to get through a leveling dungeon as fast as possible you can make your own group with like-minded players. You don't need a damage meter to know who's pulling their weight and who's not. There's only two DPS in regular dungeons. It not hard to figure out which one it is.

[dragonseth07]

Then this sounds like a case of wanting speed clears. Which is perfectly fine, but is not vital to clearing content or progression. If you want to get through a leveling dungeon as fast as possible you can make your own group with like-minded players. You don't need a damage meter to know who's pulling their weight and who's not. There's only two DPS in regular dungeons. It not hard to figure out which one it is.

You seem to have ignored my point. Either that, or it's okay to not try because we will clear in the end anyway.

[bardaboo]

Damage meters have never really brought anything good to a community, in my opinion. I can see them being helpful in elite content of some type where you need to make sure everyone is performing optimally. But usually what ends up happening is people start using them in leveling dungeons and as a way to either stroke their own epeen or grief other players.

Check out the WoW forums if you want to see horror stories about getting kicked from groups for low DPS even though they were clearing the dungeon just fine and nobody was dying.

Why must it only be hard content that we have to care and try? Wouldn't you like to know if you are doing half the damage as someone in expert roulette? If you were the tanking expert and the dps are putting out low numbers and the healer is just afk healing you, you could still beat the dungeon without dying, but it'll take 45 minutes. That cool with you? I wouldn't appreciate everyone's lack of effort.

[Lium]

Why must it only be hard content that we have to care and try? Wouldn't you like to know if you are doing half the damage as someone in expert roulette? If you were the tanking expert and the dps are putting out low numbers and the healer is just afk healing you, you could still beat the dungeon without dying, but it'll take 45 minutes. That cool with you? I wouldn't appreciate everyone's lack of effort.

Again, you don't need a damage meter to tell who's doing good and who's not.

[Dualgunner]

Again, you don't need a damage meter to tell who's doing good and who's not.

Don't need an aggro meter to tell what's aggroed to you or not. It just helps.

[bardaboo]

Again, you don't need a damage meter to tell who's doing good and who's not.

You're missing my point it sounded like you were saying players getting kicked for low dps is a direct result of parsers. And now you are refuting your own point?

[DGladius]

Again, you don't need a damage meter to tell who's doing good and who's not.

Without a parser, a run can still go smooth and at a good pace but you can get a scenario where DPS#1 averages 2400 dps the entire dungeon run and DPS#2 averages only 1000 with equivalent gear. Not everyone will know how each dps jobs is suppose to play and people probably aren't going to be paying much attention to what attack actions the dps players are doing during a run. So you can get 1 player who's half-assing it without consequence.

For raids, if things take too long to die which causes problems. The group can go 'wow you dps players aren't doing well enough.' But you can have 2 dps putting out very good numbers and the other 2 not that great. Can the group definitively know which dps aren't performing well enough? Was it all 4 dps that was bad or was it only 1 or 2? You'd have to put a lot of focus on each dps players and know the class to see if they are performing well enough or not during the raid, and then try and justify why this individual dps or more was not performing good enough without concrete proof.

[SenorPatty]

Some of you sound like you encounter bad people nearly all the time in DF. Perhaps you:

A) need to look inwards
B) Switch servers
C) Your standards are godlike
D) cursed with intense bad luck and need to visit a witch doctor to cure you of your bad juju.

Outside of raids/ex, my DF runs mostly go smooth, sometimes even above that on a daily basis. And yes, I do occasionally encounter some pretty bad ones but never enough to overwrite the good amount of DF runs I've had in this game.

[akaneakki]

Some of you sound like you encounter bad people nearly all the time in DF. Perhaps you:

A) need to look inwards
B) Switch servers
C) Your standards are godlike
D) cursed with intense bad luck and need to visit a witch doctor to cure you of your bad juju.e.

A: wut?
B: how does changing server help when servers are connected to a data center?
c: standars of people actually TRYING isn't godlike. Watch people click 1 button every 15-20 seconds, is that okay? Trying doesnt mean to be the best. Nobody here ever asked to have people play godlike, in fact we just want people to try and do decent. When a player does damage at illvl 270 good as a guy who did the same at iløvl 220, something is terrible wrong, especially with echo.
d: wut?

Note, why can't people just stop say people in here who are pro parser to say they want godlike gameplay, when they actually want people to be decent or at least trying being better. When a healer in here does more than the actuall DPS, you know very well how bad that is. Including most people scream ''healer is healer'' but when a healer does more dmg than a actuall dps?

I think majority forget they play with others and eveyrone have to play as a team. Some people think it's clearly respectful to let people play great so the 1 person doesn't have to do anything, Unfair, selfish, not just selfish but extremely selfish.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.