Dam. meter

[HPDelron]

This is a lie. Sorry but it is an outright lie. You all need to knock off repeating hearsay as if its fact.

It's not a lie or hearsay. I've been playing WoW quite a bit lately as filler until Stormblood comes out. Mass vote-kick fests are very common. Hell I just last week I had to turn down 2 vote-kicks on every trash pull before Krosus. The WoW community is toxic as all get out. Parsers are certainly not the cause you see tons toxic behavior that has nothing to do with parsers. Racism in trade chat, using terms for social disabilities as insults, petty rage quits in Mythic+. However in casual public settings parsers are used as tools by those toxic elements and offer relatively little benefit to the average person just looking to get their loot.

[Ashua]

Anecdotal? Last few runs I had showed people spam posting dps parse logs and complaints aplenty of afk and low dps people. We have issues on here about similar notes true but this would only make things worse. If people are clearing content and we have done well without in game parsers for 3-4 years then we will be fine.

[Shougun]

Anecdotal? Last few runs I had showed people spam posting dps parse logs and complaints aplenty of afk and low dps people. We have issues on here about similar notes true but this would only make things worse. If people are clearing content and we have done well without in game parsers for 3-4 years then we will be fine.

The context was parsers being useful, and he said there was no example in public and I said that is Anecdotal because I've seen it be useful many times in public. I would /heavily/ argue that removing afk and incredibly low dps people is being useful.

I'd disagree with kicking average or a little bit below average of course, and when I played WoW never bothered people with "eh.. thats.. not very.. well thats actually sort of bad" damage (I also denied vote kicks against those people, heck some days especially with a new character I am that person lol), but being able to easily see and remove AFK / people who are clearly engrossed with a TV show on their other monitor.. that's a gift parsers offer not a burden.

[Llan]

Look, you want to rule out people off runs because of low DPS in your FC or static group, go right ahead. Just don't drag the elitism to casual content.
We don't need a parser in-game for almost 99% of the game. Only that 1% that are hardcore raid groups that worry about this and that's absolutely fine as long as it is not something that will annoy anyone else other than people trying to get into said groups.

@Shougun

If you're able to finish the dungeon why go out of your way to kick people that might be multitasking? They are having fun and you should too. Instead of worrying if something might have happened to them for the DPS to be so low. That's also something I don't see the use outside static raid groups or PF raid groups.

Plus, what's the point of removing "incredibly low dps people" as you phrased it?
Why not maybe teach them a thing or two? Don't you want the game to have a better community overall? Have you never been there where he was? I reckon you weren't born dealing mad deeps. You learned and maybe those people are learning too.

[Ashua]

There is no use for the parser what-so-ever. It would be touted for the most part as a meta gaming/power gaming addition and be more harm then good. FF 14 should not mimic wow in that regard. It is bad having parses in wow they have dedicated websites for uploading parsing information as trophies.

No not even the 1% should get it. It becomes another open door of well since we have this then lets allow a bit of creep and allow the parsing for other stuff. Just keep it out.

[Shougun]

@Shougun

If you're able to finish the dungeon why go out of your way to kick people that might be multitasking? They are having fun and you should too. Instead of worrying if something might have happened to them for the DPS to be so low. That's also something I don't see the use outside static raid groups or PF raid groups.

Why should I have to make up for two or three people when I can enjoy smooth content with a team that wants to work together?

People shouldn't be expected to carry someone else who doesn't want to play, and "multitasking" by watching your favorite show on the left and pressing one blindly on the right is near not playing lol.

Of course if someone goes from core team member to afk out of no where something may have happened to them, thats where the group decides what to do next. Preferably I like to wait a bit unless there is something that means I can't (like server maintenance, dungeon timer, stuff like that).

IF you were playing solo I really don't care how you play but in a team setting I believe there should be an certain level of respect to each other... if someone started a dungeon with "guys I'm watching the Superbowl please carry me" I'd personally initiate a vote kick as soon as I found out if they were joking or not (I'd wait to make sure that was actually their intention, people make jokes no need for a kneejerk reaction).

It is bad having parses in wow they have dedicated websites for uploading parsing information as trophies.

We have a website on it too, not sure how old it is though. At least half a year, which is about when I heard of it.

[Dualgunner]

There is no use for the parser what-so-ever. It would be touted for the most part as a meta gaming/power gaming addition and be more harm then good. FF 14 should not mimic wow in that regard. It is bad having parses in wow they have dedicated websites for uploading parsing information as trophies.

I respectfully disagree. Parsers would be very useful, and there's nothing wrong with leaderboards (even PotD has leaderboards now). The same logic (we've lived without a parser for 3-4 years we don't need one now) can be applied to *any* QoL thing people want in this game. For instance, the much requested Glamlog. We've gone without it this long.

What are the top three specific uses you see for a parser in a public duty-finder group for instances such as Eyes of the Creator and Dun Scaith? Why are these uses important?

Let me open with important being subjective in this sense. What is important to me may not be important to you.

1. To help oneself optimize dps in suboptimal environments. I like to be the best I can be for the team when I'm in team based content.
2. To help others do the same if they so wish. Similar to the first case.
3. I like to look at information on the side, especially in the case of FFLogs. Much like how TL;DR likes PornHub for the stats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFutqfy4PQ Sure it's not immediately useful, it's just fun info to look at for IMO.

In what way does the parser facilitate accomplishing these improvements? Why do existing tools or options cover none of those three uses? What portion of the player base do you think would leverage these advantages if available?

Stone Sky Sea, as nice as it is, can only help one with the starting point of learning a rotation. Optimizing your rotation in an optimal environment is very different to optimizing your dps in a suboptimal environment. For instance, timing for dropping Ley Lines and using Enochian during bosses and trash pulls in dungeons: do you get more dps overall one way or another?

Speaking of rotations, parsers provide a lot of information that makes developing rotations by optimizing potency over time.

[Feidam]

Parsers have never been needed. From the minute they hit WOW and became the norm guilds started booting players left and right. Nevermind we were already clearing the content. I've seen people even get booted even when they met the dps cutoffs because they had less dps than everyone else. The stone sky and sea is all we need. Just make it so that you have to pass that check to enter a raid as dps and boom there ya go.

[Llan]

Why should I have to make up for two or three people when I can enjoy smooth content with a team that wants to work together?
...

...

Welp then that's your problem isn't it? If you're talking about Raid content with PF groups you should scout for better people.
As I said any other content can be cleared with a hand tied behind your back while eating Ramen with your elbow. No need for a parser. Sometimes it might be a little bit challenging or slower than normal because someone is new or it's their first 60.

Thank the gods we have raid groups for casual people that have patience to learn and teach as they move forward together.
Some people don't care about being World's First.

[HPDelron]

I respectfully disagree. Parsers would be very useful, and there's nothing wrong with leaderboards (even PotD has leaderboards now). The same logic (we've lived without a parser for 3-4 years we don't need one now) can be applied to *any* QoL thing people want in this game. For instance, the much requested Glamlog. We've gone without it this long.

What are the top three specific uses you see for a parser in a public duty-finder group for instances such as Eyes of the Creator and Dun Scaith? Why are these uses important? In what way does the parser facilitate accomplishing these improvements? Why do existing tools or options cover none of those three uses? What portion of the player base do you think would leverage these advantages if available?

Please be as detailed as possible.