Dam. meter

[Llan]

Look, you want to rule out people off runs because of low DPS in your FC or static group, go right ahead. Just don't drag the elitism to casual content.
We don't need a parser in-game for almost 99% of the game. Only that 1% that are hardcore raid groups that worry about this and that's absolutely fine as long as it is not something that will annoy anyone else other than people trying to get into said groups.

@Shougun

If you're able to finish the dungeon why go out of your way to kick people that might be multitasking? They are having fun and you should too. Instead of worrying if something might have happened to them for the DPS to be so low. That's also something I don't see the use outside static raid groups or PF raid groups.

Plus, what's the point of removing "incredibly low dps people" as you phrased it?
Why not maybe teach them a thing or two? Don't you want the game to have a better community overall? Have you never been there where he was? I reckon you weren't born dealing mad deeps. You learned and maybe those people are learning too.

[Shougun]

@Shougun

If you're able to finish the dungeon why go out of your way to kick people that might be multitasking? They are having fun and you should too. Instead of worrying if something might have happened to them for the DPS to be so low. That's also something I don't see the use outside static raid groups or PF raid groups.

Why should I have to make up for two or three people when I can enjoy smooth content with a team that wants to work together?

People shouldn't be expected to carry someone else who doesn't want to play, and "multitasking" by watching your favorite show on the left and pressing one blindly on the right is near not playing lol.

Of course if someone goes from core team member to afk out of no where something may have happened to them, thats where the group decides what to do next. Preferably I like to wait a bit unless there is something that means I can't (like server maintenance, dungeon timer, stuff like that).

IF you were playing solo I really don't care how you play but in a team setting I believe there should be an certain level of respect to each other... if someone started a dungeon with "guys I'm watching the Superbowl please carry me" I'd personally initiate a vote kick as soon as I found out if they were joking or not (I'd wait to make sure that was actually their intention, people make jokes no need for a kneejerk reaction).

It is bad having parses in wow they have dedicated websites for uploading parsing information as trophies.

We have a website on it too, not sure how old it is though. At least half a year, which is about when I heard of it.

[Llan]

Why should I have to make up for two or three people when I can enjoy smooth content with a team that wants to work together?
...

...

Welp then that's your problem isn't it? If you're talking about Raid content with PF groups you should scout for better people.
As I said any other content can be cleared with a hand tied behind your back while eating Ramen with your elbow. No need for a parser. Sometimes it might be a little bit challenging or slower than normal because someone is new or it's their first 60.

Thank the gods we have raid groups for casual people that have patience to learn and teach as they move forward together.
Some people don't care about being World's First.

[Shougun]

Welp then that's your problem isn't it? If you're talking about Raid content with PF groups you should scout for better people.
As I said any other content can be cleared with a hand tied behind your back while eating Ramen with your elbow. No need for a parser. Sometimes it might be a little bit challenging or slower than normal because someone is new or it's their first 60.

Thank the gods we have raid groups for casual people that have patience to learn and teach as they move forward together.
Some people don't care about being World's First.

It's not about being the world's first, its about respect. If you're going into content not to actually be part of the team but to pay your taxes, watch a show, haggle over comcast prices, and get a free ride then you shouldn't have joined in the first place. I have no care if people are new or old, its about if you're trying or not. If you don't want to play the game then don't play... Try != expecting perfection, just means actually playing and not giving the game 5% of your attention. (The above is not arguing about parsers, just in a general sense about actually trying).

Patience for learning groups is not in anyway similar to letting people not try because they just have better things to do while you play for them. On an aside though even in top tier guilds the parser usually takes a back burner while people learn, mastering the mechanics comes first since your parser can get in the way of how you're supposed to address the content if you think of it first (so.. when learning people should avoid using the parser until they've learned the mechanics, if the mechanic is damage then of course that's different lol).

Also I was talking about all content, DF/RF/W.E. Unless the content was formed with that player in mind like your FC is just dragging you along for the free clears because they can, do whatever you want then - like whatever lol.

[Orbiaus]

How come people always assume the damage meter has to show other people's damage? I'd like my own personal damage meter because im on PS4 and I can't improve if I can't see numbers!

[Llan]

It's not about being the world's first, its about respect. If you're going into content...

Patience for learning groups is not in anyway similar to letting people not try because they just have better things to do...

Sure, and you mean to tell me that a parser would allow you to know if they are trying or not based solely on their DPS numbers?
That's exactly why we don't need parsers. What for? To create arbitrary reasons to kick people and make people sad or mad during content that was supposed to be fun?
As a main Tank I come across 1 or maybe 2 very low DPS people a day. And it's not like they ruin the run for me at all.

What ruins things are people that don't want to learn/hear explanations and/or are toxic.

You might not harass players because of parse #s but there are plenty that will and I refuse to accept something like that.

[Shougun]

Sure, and you mean to tell me that a parser would allow you to know if they are trying or not based solely on their DPS numbers?

If it's really bad yeah lol. Thats why I've been saying near afk levels (as you're right at a point it will become difficult to tell), since it might be hard to tell the difference between a pro who memorized rotations but is barely paying attention and a new person who is paying attention but hanging on by their fingertips. Someone who just presses one over and over is going to have near "I'm not even here" levels and should be noticeable though, certain parser tools would even let you know if it was just one button or not XD.

Someone who is just playing poorly I might give a tip to or not, depending on if I know the issue and by how much (like if someone seems chipper with a good hello in the beginning but I notice they're using bane before their dots in PotD I'll explain that you dot then bane, only really mentioning core mechanics).

I also don't parse in FFXIV because I'm far more care free than I was in WoW lol, although I did look up some tank guides to make sure I've got the right premises (I'm also aware however that the people that made the guides used parser knowledge to develop the craft they shared). Mostly I just take up these conversations because I don't agree that they're all purely negative tools, that using the information doesn't automatically constitute harassment, that I don't believe there is (or at least was) that big a difference in the WoW and FFXIV community (I haven't played in two years, minus messing around on a friend's account). Or that because of SE's weird stance on it that I think the negatives that people may fear they already do actually feel but just from the shadows rather than in clarity (since SE has basically already half allowed it with their dont ask dont tell policy, Yoshida having even watched raid groups that have it up on screen and there is no punishment).

The meta adjustments already seep through, and the discords and groups already use it from the shadows. I feel we could make some sort of thriller youtube video on it.. "in the darkness of night.. under guise of discord the parsers come out.. secretly judging you and kicking you for "difference in play style" *queue screams*" lol.

I do however respect people's concern that it will make the community worse, I mean as I said I'm not certain it will and disagree on some elements (to me the issues are not the tools but the people, if there is a problem you do something about the people rather than the tool like "video games make murders" we all know thats lazy talk - go to the parent instead). I see about 1 or 2 people in the raids that are pretty much afk, but in smaller groups I generally have less issues so I would agree with your perspective as well (on player issues), but I also don't parse so I have no idea if I'm just not paying attention to all 24 people or not lol.

I do agree that people will see harassment /with/ parser as part of the bludgeon but I generally, again as said before, think you'd be bludgeoned anyways just with something else - the tool not making people more rude/intolerant/aggressive than they already were (I also like the idea that at least what I'm being beat up with might have some information I can learn from rather than useless shadow vague garble lol).

[Llan]

Here's the interesting thing. I never tanked in WoW.
I joined Final Fantasy XIV back in 1.0 as an Archer, became a Tank during ARR's end and HW with DRK and PLD.
I learned how to play my role without parse or guides to help me figure out what I need to do.

I think learning your class is about trying out and reading. Playing the class rather than forcing yourself to reach certain standards. But I learned it as I leveled the class experimenting with the abilities and reading the descriptions. People usually expect tanks to know everything about the run so It's even harder for us to get some good intel when we need it during a duty.

Anyways. I see your point, I just respectfully disagree with the idea of a parser in-game. That's something that we don't need for the majority of the game and solves very little issues with very specific content.

@Orbiaus

Are things getting killed in a good time during your rotations? Are you able to clear content?
That's the important thing. The number part is honestly just so you can feel better with yourself. And not everyone uses rotations from people that use parse, some people use rotations that they figured out. And I respect that and I want them to be able to keep doing that honestly. THey have fun with it and so do I.